G21 recoil spring weights

[Mifune326]

I have a G21 (Gen 2) and am looking to make the pistol shoot a little "flatter" (less muzzle flip). I use it primarily for self-defense. Is it OK to reduce the weight of the recoil spring without affecting reliability? I understand if I lower the recoil spring weight, I also have to reduce the striker spring weight.

Will frame battering be an issue with a lighter recoil spring?

If so, what recoil and striker spring weights would you folks recommend if Im shooting full power 230 gr ball and occasionally 230 gr +P Winchester Ranger SXT?

All the best to everyone...

Edited December 9, 2010 by Mifune326

[BlueOvalBruin]

For a defensive gun I would leave it alone. For competition purposes (IDPA CDP, USPSA Lim10) using 175PF ammo I use a 15lb ISMI spring. Some of that defensive .45 ammo is pretty hot so I would recommend the 17lb spring which is basically the stock part. The gun should be reliable with any spring between 13-17lbs but it depends on how the gun balances for you.

Also leave the striker/striker spring alone for a defensive gun. But on competition guns some people have trouble with light striker springs coupled with a 13lb recoil spring but I haven’t had that problem.

[dirty whiteboy]

For Competition, I use a 13# ismi recoil spring, a wolff lighten striker spring, Federal primers are a must to get 100% reliability.

[Mifune326]

Thanks fellas! I appreciate you sharing your input with me. All the best this Holiday Season to you and yours!

[Pac8541]

FWIW, I run a 20lb spring on a tungsten guide rod from Glockmeister on a G21 that is purely defensive. Thing runs great and the recoil is only marginally softer than the stock 17 lb. Zero reliability issues.

[Duane Thomas]

If the recoil is only marginally softer than the stock system, what's the point? And why would you want such a heavy spring?

[Pac8541]

I was experimenting to see what the effect would be. Since there weren't any negative issues that came up I left it in there. I also tried a 15lb and didn't like how it felt so I went up in weight. The springs are cheap and come in 2 lb increments.

[Pac8541]

If the recoil is only marginally softer than the stock system, what's the point? And why would you want such a heavy spring?

Ya know, these questions made me ask them to myself again. In doing so I did a little more reading here, specifically, the threads about recoil springs and cyclic rates, and what you're actually trying to achieve with this... I think its in the beginner section somewhere. Go figure.

I believe my "logic" in trying out heavier springs was flawed and running a 3lb heavier than stock spring is probably going in the wrong direction. Perhaps my perception that the gun was running smoother or more controllably with the heavier spring was purely mental trickery. I dunno. It seems as though the recoil isn't as violent even though theoretically, the slide should be moving back into battery faster with this spring.

I'll be back on the range tues morning and will swap springs in and out and pay particular attention to this.

[Duane Thomas]

Let us know what conclusions you reach, please.

[Pac8541]

Ok, I spent about 3 hrs and 300 rds this morning running various drills and swapping springs in and out. At the end, I shot a "Combat Challenge" stage set up by the guys at work which required runs in opposite directions of 2 rds on 8 separate targets spaced evenly behind 4 no-shoot targets and requiring at least 1 reload while moving. I focused on the stock guide rod/17lb spring and a tungsten rod/15lb spring. I thought I'd give the 15lb another shot now that I'm a little better educated with the function and purpose of the recoil spring and understand the cycling process more thoroughly. My goal is to soften the rearward recoil action of the slide and have it return to battery less violently. I'm looking for my best ability to manage the recoil of the weapon and have the sights return to where they were quickly and smoothly. This is being done in conjunction with the refinement of my grip, stance, and trigger control, all of which has been done with guidance from this forum, other sources of information, and the shooting instructors at work.

In short, I found that the stock 17lb spring worked the most reliably while providing an acceptable level of movement from the slide. Maybe that's a no brainer for most but I generally tend to regard most made-for-the-masses products with a critical eye, realizing that they are a mass produced, "good enough" sort of end unit designed to function for the lowest common denominator. The temptation to upgrade everything can get out of control and realistically amounts to minimal improvements, if any, that are mostly mental comfort items.

The 15lb spring extracted and ejected reliably and I had no issue with it. It was easy to shoot and I perceived it to be an improvement over the stock spring. However, about an hour into it I noticed the feeding and chambering actions seeming to happen in slow motion, almost as if it were just making it back into battery. At one point it actually failed to completely lock, ending in a condition identical to pressing the muzzle backwards about a 1/4". I attribute this partially to a dirty weapon needing lubrication. I've known for quite some time that the standard Lawman 230gr ball training ammo I use is a dirty load that always coats the muzzle and front sight with carbon. Cleaning this afternoon was nothing unusual but was a chore.

I'm going to try this spring again with a similar round count but with more attention to lubrication throughout my range time to verify what I'm seeing. In the meantime however, the stock spring gets the call.

(This is not meant to be any kind of epiphany in my shooting designed to provide anyone with some great discovery. I realize that this whole process could probably have been avoided, and the ammo saved, by doing a little more research and/or listening more intently to those who are truly the experts. This is also not meant to be another God-awful "review" of some widget or ridiculously obvious piece of equipment. But, like many non-participating competitors, I like to see what my gun does, myself. Hopefully someone besides me will have something to take away from all this.)

[Mifune326]

Thanks for the info Pac. Your timing is perfect. I was wondering what the effect might be of swapping out the 17 lb recoil spring for the 15 lb one. I think that while the 15 lb might provide a little less muzzle rise, it sounds like it might also cause the gun to run a little less reliably.

Thanks for running the test and for sharing the results with us.

Merry Christmas to you and yours,

Chris

[BlueOvalBruin]

Even without much lube I’m surprised he got malfunctions with the 15lb spring.

That’s the thing I love about using slide glide on glocks. It keeps the gun lubed for a very long time but doesn’t slow glocks down like it can other guns.

[Pac8541]

Ran another 300 rds through it this morning after cleaning it completely and being rather liberal with the Kellube. Had 1 malfunction where the slide actually locked back as if on an empty magazine when the mag was only 2 or 3 rounds down but I think that was due to my support hand accidentally pushing the slide stop up. Otherwise, the 15lb spring ran flawlessly. It still "feels" slow going back into battery when I watch it happen. Probably just mind tricks.

I may have to try this slide glide stuff. What is the recommended application interval, will one application last a whole match? A day? Several hundred rounds?

[BlueOvalBruin]

I use slide glide light on my glocks and get about 2000rds before I reapply it, but usually more like 800-1000rds just because 2K rds = 2 months. I bump that interval to 1000-1200 rds with my 1911. The slide glide is very sticky so it stays put even after many rounds. I am using handloads with moly coated lead bullets and solo1000 powder which is probably a little bit cleaner than those factory loads you’re using. I have yet to have a malfunction with any of my glocks that was cleanliness/lubrication related.

[Pac8541]

Great info, thank you. Just ordered some from CPWSP.

[Downrange58]

I use slide glide light on my glocks and get about 2000rds before I reapply it, but usually more like 800-1000rds just because 2K rds = 2 months. I bump that interval to 1000-1200 rds with my 1911. The slide glide is very sticky so it stays put even after many rounds. I am using handloads with moly coated lead bullets and solo1000 powder which is probably a little bit cleaner than those factory loads you’re using. I have yet to have a malfunction with any of my glocks that was cleanliness/lubrication related.

BlueOvalBruin, Are you using the moly coated in your Glocks and if you are are you using RN or FP's I am thinking of switching to moly coated in my G21 along with Solo 1000. Any particular brand of molys? Any recipes to share? Any help appreciated! Kent

[Duane Thomas]

I once put almost 5,000 rounds of lead bullet handloads through my Wilson 1911, lubed with Slide-Glide, without cleaning and without malfunctions. Not necessarily recommending that, but I did it and the gun still ran fine.

[BlueOvalBruin]

I use slide glide light on my glocks and get about 2000rds before I reapply it, but usually more like 800-1000rds just because 2K rds = 2 months. I bump that interval to 1000-1200 rds with my 1911. The slide glide is very sticky so it stays put even after many rounds. I am using handloads with moly coated lead bullets and solo1000 powder which is probably a little bit cleaner than those factory loads you’re using. I have yet to have a malfunction with any of my glocks that was cleanliness/lubrication related.

BlueOvalBruin, Are you using the moly coated in your Glocks and if you are are you using RN or FP's I am thinking of switching to moly coated in my G21 along with Solo 1000. Any particular brand of molys? Any recipes to share? Any help appreciated! Kent

Yes, I do use moly bullets in my G21SF using the stock barrel. The pressures seem low enough that it doesn't lead up the stock barrel. I've been using bear creek 230gr RN with 4.4gr Solo1000 and federal LP match primers. The OAL is about 1.240, I basically put the bullet shoulder just on front of the case mouth (you'd see what I'm talking about if you saw the bullet). I haven't chronoed it in the G21 but it gets 171.10PF with my springfield GI and 172.6PF with my Dan Wesson PM7. The G21 barrel is .4" shorter but glock barrels are generally pretty fast so the load's probably pretty close. I tried the 200gr RN hollow base bear creeks too but didn't like them as much.

[Downrange58]

Thank you B.O.B.! I appreciate the point in the direction I want to go! Seems like there is a lot of conflicting advice out there on how to clean the leading or moly build-up out of the stock glock barrels as well as the other types. Any thoughts? Thanks for taking the time! Kent

[BlueOvalBruin]

I don’t get much leading in the barrel but when I do clean it I just use a dry brass brush. On stainless barrels you can dunk the barrel in a hydrogen peroxide and vinegar solution for a few minutes, but not with the steel stock glock barrels. Often times when I shoot moly I’ll get a little leading in the first inch or so but it doesn’t really accumulate so I don’t try to clean it out each time.