I want to go open but where to start...?

[chad GUNder]

Fact... I'm going to build an open gun for NRA AP

Fact... It will be a single stack 1911 on a Caspian Frame and STI slide

Help... Is 9 mm going to get it done? 115 or 124? Slow or fast burning powders?

Fact... caspian barrel shroud and stick shift with PF 4 reticule dot site?

Help... Magwell for this set up?

Help... Barrel? Bull or bushings?

You are the ones who know and I would really appreciate your guidance. I am currently shooting metallic with a long slide 45 with an ultimatch bull barrel, acc-u-railed, major slide lightening and use 10 round mags to elevate my sights while prone?

Did I mention I AM going to build an open pistol? I don't want to make the wrong decisions based on shooting open USPSA for years!

Thank you all for whatever you can do to help me make the fewest mistakes!

[DWFAN]

Warren Moore makes a good magwell/prone pad, makes the Stickshift mover base also. (toolguy on the forum)

Hope to have myself an open gun by early winter and get some practice in before the cup next year. Here's what my list should look like:

Probably a Caspian highcap frame

5inch slide - caspian (lightened)

6inch KKM or Schuemann barrel, bushing, comp. Probably 9mm. (the 6inch barrel puts the comp out farther to avoid hot gas and powder coming back at you under the shroud, and more velocity).

Caspian shroud (got one for a steal while at the CUP), stick shift from Warren.

Still undecided on the Dot. I like quite a few, and all the guys I shoot with have their own favorites. Aimpoint and Ultradot mostly, few old Gilmores floating around.

Im NOT going to build mine. Im no where near able to do all the required work nor have the tools.

You shooting in Kansas City this weekend ?

[Alan550]

Chad,

I'm sure others will chime in here later, but here goes:

There's no reason to go hi-cap unless you just want that feature. There are no more than 6 rounds required in any string of fire before a reload, either on or off the clock.

The 5" lightened slide is great but put a 6" bushing barrel in it to get the comp out far enough in front to prevent blow-back under the shroud.

+1 on the prone pad/mag well and Stick-Shift from Warren Moore. The prone pad takes care of getting the gun high enough for prone shooting, like you're using your mags to do now. It also removes pressure from the bottom of the mag so you eliminate the possibility of jamming the gun with the mag pressure.

Get the gun Accu-Railed too, and order an extra set of rails for when those wear out. It's a lot cheaper than getting them re-fitted later.

The PF red-dot is great for reliability, lack of parallax and practicality.

You may find that the Caspian shroud is a bit short and will take some getting used to. It's a little more bulky than the Gilmore and heavier too. The shroud itself is aluminum like the Gilmore, but the wings are steel. The wings weigh more than the rest of the shroud and I'm having some made by a local machinist out of aluminum to cut down on weight.

Other items..........

Try a Tungsten guide rod to help put more unsprung weight out front. It makes the gun hold a lot steadier.

As to the caliber, it's personal choice.

In the past the 9mm wasn't very reliable for feeding in a 1911 platform, and I'm not sure all the bugs have been worked out of that problem. The 1911 was designed to run with a cartridge OAL of ~1.250, and with a ramped barrel that means either a 9X23, .38 Super or .45 ACP. I use the 9X23 with WST powder around 1095 FPS. It runs 9mm bullets and at that speed, is very accurate. We're talking less than 1" at 50 yds.

Good luck on your new build, and as they told me in Indiana "shoot 'em in the middle".

Alan~^~

[chad GUNder]

First of all I should clarify... I'm am not personally building this pistol. I'm having it built!

Thanks to you both for the advise. Definitely some clarification on some items! Still looking for some advice on powders... Fast or slow burning? I'm guessing slow for the comp to be at it's best.

Regarding the Gilmore shroud! Where do you get one? Gilmore's site is down? Cost? Who else makes a good scope? Lots of bad press on the Gilmore sight, but we all know the saying about opinions?

Mine will be a single stack Caspian with probably a Schueman barrel as well.

Cost on magwell from Warren? I know his stitch shift price... 300!

Thanks again!

OBTW... I'll be shooting a match in Billings this weekend. Only 10 minutes from home.

[Alan550]

First of all I should clarify... I'm am not personally building this pistol. I'm having it built!

Thanks to you both for the advise. Definitely some clarification on some items! Still looking for some advice on powders... Fast or slow burning? I'm guessing slow for the comp to be at it's best.

Regarding the Gilmore shroud! Where do you get one? Gilmore's site is down? Cost? Who else makes a good scope? Lots of bad press on the Gilmore sight, but we all know the saying about opinions?

Mine will be a single stack Caspian with probably a Schueman barrel as well.

Cost on magwell from Warren? I know his stitch shift price... 300!

Thanks again!

OBTW... I'll be shooting a match in Billings this weekend. Only 10 minutes from home.

For optics, the Pride/Fowler AP red dot is the way to go. There's a link on here in the Bianchi Cup section somewhere for that scope.

The Gilmore shrouds are rare to find anymore. If you have serious problems finding one, get back to me and maybe I can help. I have a couple of them stashed for future gun builds and could maybe be persuaded to part with one of them.

As far as the powder is concerned, you won't be pushing enough velocity to need a slow powder. Most use something like WST, AA#2, W231, or Titegroup. The faster stuff in other words. Stay either under 1100 FPS or over 1150. If you get in the area in between those numbers, you're playing with the speed of sound and the accuracy gets hinky for the 50 yd stuff. Keep your loads either super-sonic out to 50 yds or sub-sonic from the get-go.

The magwell/prone pad goes for around $50.00. Shoot Warren a PM or an email and he can fill you in on pricing.

Alan~^~

[chad GUNder]

First of all I should clarify... I'm am not personally building this pistol. I'm having it built!

Thanks to you both for the advise. Definitely some clarification on some items! Still looking for some advice on powders... Fast or slow burning? I'm guessing slow for the comp to be at it's best.

Regarding the Gilmore shroud! Where do you get one? Gilmore's site is down? Cost? Who else makes a good scope? Lots of bad press on the Gilmore sight, but we all know the saying about opinions?

Mine will be a single stack Caspian with probably a Schueman barrel as well.

Cost on magwell from Warren? I know his stitch shift price... 300!

Thanks again!

OBTW... I'll be shooting a match in Billings this weekend. Only 10 minutes from home.

For optics, the Pride/Fowler AP red dot is the way to go. There's a link on here in the Bianchi Cup section somewhere for that scope.

The Gilmore shrouds are rare to find anymore. If you have serious problems finding one, get back to me and maybe I can help. I have a couple of them stashed for future gun builds and could maybe be persuaded to part with one of them.

As far as the powder is concerned, you won't be pushing enough velocity to need a slow powder. Most use something like WST, AA#2, W231, or Titegroup. The faster stuff in other words. Stay either under 1100 FPS or over 1150. If you get in the area in between those numbers, you're playing with the speed of sound and the accuracy gets hinky for the 50 yd stuff. Keep your loads either super-sonic out to 50 yds or sub-sonic from the get-go.

The magwell/prone pad goes for around $50.00. Shoot Warren a PM or an email and he can fill you in on pricing.

Alan~^~

[chad GUNder]

First of all I should clarify... I'm am not personally building this pistol. I'm having it built!

Thanks to you both for the advise. Definitely some clarification on some items! Still looking for some advice on powders... Fast or slow burning? I'm guessing slow for the comp to be at it's best.

Regarding the Gilmore shroud! Where do you get one? Gilmore's site is down? Cost? Who else makes a good scope? Lots of bad press on the Gilmore sight, but we all know the saying about opinions?

Mine will be a single stack Caspian with probably a Schueman barrel as well.

Cost on magwell from Warren? I know his stitch shift price... 300!

Thanks again!

OBTW... I'll be shooting a match in Billings this weekend. Only 10 minutes from home.

For optics, the Pride/Fowler AP red dot is the way to go. There's a link on here in the Bianchi Cup section somewhere for that scope.

The Gilmore shrouds are rare to find anymore. If you have serious problems finding one, get back to me and maybe I can help. I have a couple of them stashed for future gun builds and could maybe be persuaded to part with one of them.

As far as the powder is concerned, you won't be pushing enough velocity to need a slow powder. Most use something like WST, AA#2, W231, or Titegroup. The faster stuff in other words. Stay either under 1100 FPS or over 1150. If you get in the area in between those numbers, you're playing with the speed of sound and the accuracy gets hinky for the 50 yd stuff. Keep your loads either super-sonic out to 50 yds or sub-sonic from the get-go.

The magwell/prone pad goes for around $50.00. Shoot Warren a PM or an email and he can fill you in on pricing.

Alan~^~

[chad GUNder]

Alan, Youve been a huge help man... Thanks!

I think I know which direction to go from here for the start of my build. I really appreciate the help!

[DWFAN]

fyi.. The guys around here say Gilmore still has shrouds, but you gotta call.

good luck!

[chad GUNder]

fyi.. The guys around here say Gilmore still has shrouds, but you gotta call.

good luck!

Anyone have a name and number? Estimated price? Thanks again

[Alan550]

Gilmore Sports Concepts, Inc.

5949 South Garnett Road

Tulsa, OK 74146

Order Line: 800-880-3845

Voice Line: 918-250-4867

FAX: 918-250-3845

Last ones I bought were ~$300.00

Alan~^~

Tulsa, Oklahoma 74146 So

[gm iprod]

I have a Gilmore Shroud on the gun my daughter uses and we just got a Caspian / Piatt Shroud. I am hard pressed to choose between the two. Plus I also have two old Hillver / Koenig shrouds that are perfectly servicable, a little wider than most like but I ran one for years until I built my custom unit.

I have 5 AP guns in Super, 3 open and 2 metallic. I am looking at building one for my Dad and he only loads 38Spl or 9mm so we are going 9mm for him. I have a choice of Tanfoglio (which I already own and is reliable) and an old free 1911 frame. I suspect I am going to land up building both for different reasons. My Dad already owns a Tanfoglio in Std configuration and it has been brilliant. Not the best for accuracy for AP but it is relaible as hell with std loads. He also has enough magazines to shoot everything without reloading a mag all day.

If my guns disappeared tomorrow I would be torn between 9mm or Super, both have advantages.

I like 9mm as you could in theory use factory ammo in a pinch and brass is absolutely everywhere for peanuts. John Pride does OK with 9mm, so you will shoot as good with one or the other.

Scopes, Call Brownells and see if they have some AImpoint CompC left, if so grab one, and buy a PFI as well as a backup plan. Can't have to many good optics when shooting open.

[chad GUNder]

I have a Gilmore Shroud on the gun my daughter uses and we just got a Caspian / Piatt Shroud. I am hard pressed to choose between the two. Plus I also have two old Hillver / Koenig shrouds that are perfectly servicable, a little wider than most like but I ran one for years until I built my custom unit.

I have 5 AP guns in Super, 3 open and 2 metallic. I am looking at building one for my Dad and he only loads 38Spl or 9mm so we are going 9mm for him. I have a choice of Tanfoglio (which I already own and is reliable) and an old free 1911 frame. I suspect I am going to land up building both for different reasons. My Dad already owns a Tanfoglio in Std configuration and it has been brilliant. Not the best for accuracy for AP but it is relaible as hell with std loads. He also has enough magazines to shoot everything without reloading a mag all day.

If my guns disappeared tomorrow I would be torn between 9mm or Super, both have advantages.

I like 9mm as you could in theory use factory ammo in a pinch and brass is absolutely everywhere for peanuts. John Pride does OK with 9mm, so you will shoot as good with one or the other.

Scopes, Call Brownells and see if they have some AImpoint CompC left, if so grab one, and buy a PFI as well as a backup plan. Can't have to many good optics when shooting open.

I got a chance yesterday to feel the difference between the Gilmore shroud and the Caspian. Both are nice, but I did prefer the slimmer Gilmore. I still feel like someone should make a slimmer one yet! Just my 2 cents.

I cannot wait to go open! I love high tech!

I really appreciate everyones help on this subject! Thanks to all of ya very much!