Can upper panel targets be on their side or upside down?

[Schutzenmeister]

[...]

Just because it might be technically legal, doesn't make it a good idea....

Thanks Nik! +1!

[wileecoyote37]

George Jones, on 21 June 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

Skydiver, on 21 June 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

Sort on tangent, if it's a head only target, then it can't be upside down?

Note T1-T2 and T10-T11 in the stage below. (As far as I know the stage has been approved for an upcoming Level II match.) When the stage was setup and shot to work out the bugs a few months ago, only the A/B were visible for T2 and T11. It'll probably be setup the same way next month for the real deal.

http://northwestsect...d%20Bay%205.pdf

I have no problem with those. The target orientation is obvious to the shooters. Of course, I would never put those arrays together without at least a 1/2" harcover between them to prevent a single bullet from scoring on both targets - scoring nightmare alert!

Good suggestion! I'll mention it to the MD and/or RM.

This set up is in a match where I'm the MD. George, you say this would be a scoring nightmare! I delibetly left out the black strip to separate the targets - 2 shots cutting the perfs will score both targets, not good score but scores never the less. Why is that a nightmare?

[George Jones]

This set up is in a match where I'm the MD. George, you say this would be a scoring nightmare! I delibetly left out the black strip to separate the targets - 2 shots cutting the perfs will score both targets, not good score but scores never the less. Why is that a nightmare?

If I read this correctly, you have purposely created a situation where a shooter could take only two shots at one of those arrays, resulting in only two holes (each of them "straddling" the perf between the two targets) which can then be scored as two hits on each target. Is that right?

If that were to happen....

Can two shots, resulting in only two holes on one of those arrays, count as four hits?

[Times two since you have two arrays like this]

What is the minimum round count required for the stage?

Can the answers to those two questions be reconciled?

Edited June 22, 2010 by George Jones

[Skizeks]

Same target presentation, No targets are cut up. The shoot target is just turned upside down. You see this now and then with just head shots. I had a stage likle this at the Nats in Montana with just head shots where some of the targets had a No-shoot just below the head. This is not much different, just upside down!

Sometimes you have to come up with better ways to to the same thing.

Same sneeky idea!!

Presentation1.ppt

[wileecoyote37]

If I read this correctly, you have purposely created a situation where a shooter could take only two shots at one of those arrays, resulting in only two holes (each of them "straddling" the perf between the two targets) which can then be scored as two hits on each target. Is that right?

If that were to happen....

Can two shots, resulting in only two holes on one of those arrays, count as four hits?

[Times two since you have two arrays like this]

What is the minimum round count required for the stage?

Can the answers to those two questions be reconciled?

2 shots count as 4 hits - yes - just as 1 shot counts as 2 hits when there is a no shoot over a scoring target and you cut the perf between them.

Is the minimum round count on the stage a "requirement" or for information only? Does the RO have to be sure there are the "minimum" shots at the target? Are there pemalties for not making the "minimum" number of shots? The reason for this target array (not my idea but I allowed it) was to slow down the shooter and make th shooter pay close attention to the target not just hose away (it's a very close target). I know this target sure messed me up when I shot it before. Black between targets allows the shooter to hose away without paying real close attention because the black is a highlight.

Can the answers be reconciled? In my mind yes but what are your thoughts?

All interesting questions that wouldn't even be thought of if we didn't have the forum. A lot of fun to consider.

[George Jones]

2 shots count as 4 hits - yes - just as 1 shot counts as 2 hits when there is a no shoot over a scoring target and you cut the perf between them.

Agreed, But if we read these rules closely, they seem to imply that this kind of array is outside the conditions mentioned. Only two rules cover hits across scoring zones. Specifically...

Rule 9.5.2 uses the term "on a scoring target". This tells me that the rule concerns a single target, not multiple target arrays. If one hit "scores" on two scoring zones (i.e. one target C and the other target A) and we do assume that this rule applies, which one do we score? The rule does not say score both, just score the higher, which would mean scoring only the A on one target. It could then be argued that the "lower" C hit cannot be counted.

Rule 9.5.3 is the one that allows a single hit to score on two targets, but it specifically addresses one scoring target and one penalty target.

So I go back to my opinion that this kind of array is not covered by either of those rules, and therefore is best avoided so as to prevent scoring inconsistencies.

Is the minimum round count on the stage a "requirement" or for information only? Does the RO have to be sure there are the "minimum" shots at the target? Are there pemalties for not making the "minimum" number of shots? The reason for this target array (not my idea but I allowed it) was to slow down the shooter and make th shooter pay close attention to the target not just hose away (it's a very close target). I know this target sure messed me up when I shot it before. Black between targets allows the shooter to hose away without paying real close attention because the black is a highlight.

Can the answers be reconciled? In my mind yes but what are your thoughts?

All interesting questions that wouldn't even be thought of if we didn't have the forum. A lot of fun to consider.

You are correct that the stage round count is simply information and does not obligate the shooter to actually fire that number of shots - the misses will speak for themselves. The main reason for my "discomfort" with this kind of array is that it will likely result in inconsistent scoring. I did not imply that it is illegal, just highly impractical.

Using black hardcover between targets simply removes the scoring issues. It doesn't help or hurt hosing. There are many other ways to prevent "hosing" which will not lead to scoring issues.