Poppel Hole angle?

[Dancin Dan]

Brazos recomended 4756 and I also tried 7625 and 3N38.I took out the recoil master and put in a tungston guide rod with a 10lbs spring, better but still rough. I'll have to try the AA#7. I think I'm just used to my old gun being so flat. Thanks for the advice.

[CocoBolo]

Brazos recomended 4756 and I also tried 7625 and 3N38.I took out the recoil master and put in a tungston guide rod with a 10lbs spring, better but still rough. I'll have to try the AA#7. I think I'm just used to my old gun being so flat. Thanks for the advice.

11# is what I run. The shorty while just a whacked off full size slide seems to be a lot quicker cycling and the recoil seems to hit a little violently. I never expected flat and soft especially since mine is 9 Major. David Rea runs N105, atleast that is what he was running and he can probably give you some pointers on the load. His handle here is XRE. If your gun is tight AA#7 is drity enough to stop it from running. The moving weight on that gun is down which is good but the overall weight is also down. When I run the shorty I always pony up with a full big stick, for the weight. Once the buzzer sounds you have to just ignore the recoil and the noise, what noise dot and target that is it. In some cases you have to use more powder to get it to soften up and flatten out, I had to do that with my Bedell Comped gun.

Check your firing pin stop and make sure it has a good radius on it, that will knock a tick off the snappyness.

I like the shorty its fun to shoot but a bit snappy.

[G-ManBart]

11# is a way heavy recoil spring for most any Open gun. I'd bet 80% of Open shooters are running 9# springs and the rest are almost evenly split between 8 and 10.

Simply shooting a gun with holes and without holes doesn't tell you much. You have to develop a load for each combination, then get used to it with enough rounds to get your timing down. Document the numbers you see on the timer. Then, make the change, work up a load, shoot enough to get used to it, and document those numbers on the timer. Compare results A with results B and you'll know which is "better".

When I swapped a heavy guide rod in to my gun, with no other changes, it took me about 150 rounds before I settled down and started to get my timing back. By 250 rounds I was feeling a lot more in synch, but maybe not 100%. R,

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I am running a 9lb ISMI recoil spring in my shorty 9mm. I am also using 115grain Montana Gold JHP's now with Silhouette, 3n37 and HS-6. The gun seems to run flatter with the 115's and more powder Next one will be a 5" 9mm just to try it. Thanks, Eric

[XRe]

Here's what I can tell you... Coming off of a heavier 5" gun, any shorty is going to appear to move very very quickly - some would interpret that was violent, depending on how much time they have behind an Open gun. I can tell you for certain that a Brazos Pro Sx is not a violent gun when driven with 4756 or N105 - I have shot violent guns... If you think the Pro Sx is violent, you should check out some of the things I've shot...

The Recoil Master that's in the gun is pretty much equivalent to a 9-10# recoil spring. Adding weight (via a tungsten guide rod) will tend to dampen the movement some at the expense of driveability. Going to a heavier recoil spring will actually tend to increase flip (search around the forum...). Going to a slower powder (like N105) will tend to flatten the gun out some - but it's still going to move faster than an older school 5" gun regardless. You can't get away from that.

What you don't know, though, is how it will affect your performance. To this day, I prefer the soft Cadillac ride of a 5" gun. If I were to pick the gun I want to shoot based solely on feel, I'd be shooting the Brazos Pro Series 5" that I sold late last year. However, when you throw in objective performance measurements, I consistently shoot the short gun faster, and with better hits, and with higher confidence. Frankly, I'll take the performance over feel any day.

7625 in a Pro Sx is going to be a very high pressure load - I would not recommend that combo at all. 3N38 is probably OK. 4756 and N105 are better. Personally, I hate the snot out of AA7, and wouldn't recommend it...

Hey, Ron... it's "Re"...

[CocoBolo]

11# is a way heavy recoil spring for most any Open gun. I'd bet 80% of Open shooters are running 9# springs and the rest are almost evenly split between 8 and 10.

Simply shooting a gun with holes and without holes doesn't tell you much. You have to develop a load for each combination, then get used to it with enough rounds to get your timing down. Document the numbers you see on the timer. Then, make the change, work up a load, shoot enough to get used to it, and document those numbers on the timer. Compare results A with results B and you'll know which is "better".

When I swapped a heavy guide rod in to my gun, with no other changes, it took me about 150 rounds before I settled down and started to get my timing back. By 250 rounds I was feeling a lot more in synch, but maybe not 100%. R,

G-man - I didn't just decide to whomp a 11# recoil spring in the gun. I did range testing with an 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12# and I also had a 13, and 14 in the range bag. So the 11# is a shorty 9 major with no holes and a Brazos Comp. Range testing was done with at least 4 different powders and loads for both 125gr and 115gr all at @172pf. To eliminate my own bias load and spring testing was repeated with two GM's and two very good B class shooters one is my smith, they always want to shoot your gun and love testing. Stranger than fiction they all picked the same load and same recoil spring, that I thought was the best.

[CocoBolo]

Here's what I can tell you... Coming off of a heavier 5" gun, any shorty is going to appear to move very very quickly - some would interpret that was violent, depending on how much time they have behind an Open gun. I can tell you for certain that a Brazos Pro Sx is not a violent gun when driven with 4756 or N105 - I have shot violent guns... If you think the Pro Sx is violent, you should check out some of the things I've shot...

The Recoil Master that's in the gun is pretty much equivalent to a 9-10# recoil spring. Adding weight (via a tungsten guide rod) will tend to dampen the movement some at the expense of driveability. Going to a heavier recoil spring will actually tend to increase flip (search around the forum...). Going to a slower powder (like N105) will tend to flatten the gun out some - but it's still going to move faster than an older school 5" gun regardless. You can't get away from that.

What you don't know, though, is how it will affect your performance. To this day, I prefer the soft Cadillac ride of a 5" gun. If I were to pick the gun I want to shoot based solely on feel, I'd be shooting the Brazos Pro Series 5" that I sold late last year. However, when you throw in objective performance measurements, I consistently shoot the short gun faster, and with better hits, and with higher confidence. Frankly, I'll take the performance over feel any day.

7625 in a Pro Sx is going to be a very high pressure load - I would not recommend that combo at all. 3N38 is probably OK. 4756 and N105 are better. Personally, I hate the snot out of AA7, and wouldn't recommend it...

Hey, Ron... it's "Re"...

Hey I never claimed I could spell, but I'll get it right next time. I like my shorty, its a bit snappy still compared to a soft shooting fs 38 Super, I did get a bit more flip with the heavier spring but I lost a lot of jery dot movement, and I'm still fairly un-skilled so I need to think I'm in control. AA#7 chunky dirty, about 12# to shoot up. Silhouette seems to work well in the 9 major. One of these days I'll have to try 4756 again I ran it in a V8 Tanfo and it didn't do the trick. I have a whole shelf full of 1/2 empty bottles of powder I didn't like, AutoComp, 3N37, N350, HS6, TruBlue, 7625, 3N38, Power Pistol, and N105, I'm going to give N105 another try when I get time. Maybe I'll see you at the Show Me the Money match, aka Summer Shoot Out at River City.

[G-ManBart]

11# is a way heavy recoil spring for most any Open gun. I'd bet 80% of Open shooters are running 9# springs and the rest are almost evenly split between 8 and 10.

Simply shooting a gun with holes and without holes doesn't tell you much. You have to develop a load for each combination, then get used to it with enough rounds to get your timing down. Document the numbers you see on the timer. Then, make the change, work up a load, shoot enough to get used to it, and document those numbers on the timer. Compare results A with results B and you'll know which is "better".

When I swapped a heavy guide rod in to my gun, with no other changes, it took me about 150 rounds before I settled down and started to get my timing back. By 250 rounds I was feeling a lot more in synch, but maybe not 100%. R,

G-man - I didn't just decide to whomp a 11# recoil spring in the gun. I did range testing with an 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12# and I also had a 13, and 14 in the range bag. So the 11# is a shorty 9 major with no holes and a Brazos Comp. Range testing was done with at least 4 different powders and loads for both 125gr and 115gr all at @172pf. To eliminate my own bias load and spring testing was repeated with two GM's and two very good B class shooters one is my smith, they always want to shoot your gun and love testing. Stranger than fiction they all picked the same load and same recoil spring, that I thought was the best.

They each shot hundreds of rounds and compared on the timer? If not, they were all really working off that somewhat limited data...and what it seems like isn't always what it really is when you put it on the clock...as per Dave's comments a post or two up. I know it takes me a couple hundred rounds to really get a good feel for a change to my setup.

I'm not saying you should change, or that you're wrong, but it is an unusual combination that typically produces more muzzle flip than a lighter spring. If it works for you, that's super, duper cool, but it wouldn't be my first recommendation to anybody.

If I ever get around to getting my MC gun back to Derek for finish I may try to get him to fit a second barrel with the same comp and add popple holes so I can do an apples to apples comparison. R,

[CocoBolo]

11# is a way heavy recoil spring for most any Open gun. I'd bet 80% of Open shooters are running 9# springs and the rest are almost evenly split between 8 and 10.

Simply shooting a gun with holes and without holes doesn't tell you much. You have to develop a load for each combination, then get used to it with enough rounds to get your timing down. Document the numbers you see on the timer. Then, make the change, work up a load, shoot enough to get used to it, and document those numbers on the timer. Compare results A with results B and you'll know which is "better".

When I swapped a heavy guide rod in to my gun, with no other changes, it took me about 150 rounds before I settled down and started to get my timing back. By 250 rounds I was feeling a lot more in synch, but maybe not 100%. R,

G-man - I didn't just decide to whomp a 11# recoil spring in the gun. I did range testing with an 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12# and I also had a 13, and 14 in the range bag. So the 11# is a shorty 9 major with no holes and a Brazos Comp. Range testing was done with at least 4 different powders and loads for both 125gr and 115gr all at @172pf. To eliminate my own bias load and spring testing was repeated with two GM's and two very good B class shooters one is my smith, they always want to shoot your gun and love testing. Stranger than fiction they all picked the same load and same recoil spring, that I thought was the best.

They each shot hundreds of rounds and compared on the timer? If not, they were all really working off that somewhat limited data...and what it seems like isn't always what it really is when you put it on the clock...as per Dave's comments a post or two up. I know it takes me a couple hundred rounds to really get a good feel for a change to my setup.

I'm not saying you should change, or that you're wrong, but it is an unusual combination that typically produces more muzzle flip than a lighter spring. If it works for you, that's super, duper cool, but it wouldn't be my first recommendation to anybody.

If I ever get around to getting my MC gun back to Derek for finish I may try to get him to fit a second barrel with the same comp and add popple holes so I can do an apples to apples comparison. R,

G-man - Limited guns are simple these open guns now everyone and everygun is just a little different. Like life most of our un-happyness is a result of comparing to others, I shot some others Benny Hill guns (holes) Dawson Guns - no holes, all of them were softer and flatter than mine so I've been working to get there. The poppel hole gun is there now same soft and flat feel, I like it, I've got about 500 rds since the mod and 13 stages in competition. The shorty well it will get parked when I get my new barrels back for the 5" slide that goes on the gun.

[Dancin Dan]

Here's what I can tell you... Coming off of a heavier 5" gun, any shorty is going to appear to move very very quickly - some would interpret that was violent, depending on how much time they have behind an Open gun. I can tell you for certain that a Brazos Pro Sx is not a violent gun when driven with 4756 or N105 - I have shot violent guns... If you think the Pro Sx is violent, you should check out some of the things I've shot...

The Recoil Master that's in the gun is pretty much equivalent to a 9-10# recoil spring. Adding weight (via a tungsten guide rod) will tend to dampen the movement some at the expense of driveability. Going to a heavier recoil spring will actually tend to increase flip (search around the forum...). Going to a slower powder (like N105) will tend to flatten the gun out some - but it's still going to move faster than an older school 5" gun regardless. You can't get away from that.

What you don't know, though, is how it will affect your performance. To this day, I prefer the soft Cadillac ride of a 5" gun. If I were to pick the gun I want to shoot based solely on feel, I'd be shooting the Brazos Pro Series 5" that I sold late last year. However, when you throw in objective performance measurements, I consistently shoot the short gun faster, and with better hits, and with higher confidence. Frankly, I'll take the performance over feel any day.

7625 in a Pro Sx is going to be a very high pressure load - I would not recommend that combo at all. 3N38 is probably OK. 4756 and N105 are better. Personally, I hate the snot out of AA7, and wouldn't recommend it...

Hey, Ron... it's "Re"...

Well, I shot an open gun for about 10 years then quit for 8 yrs been back at it for 1 1/2 and I've shot all sorts of open guns. I even have a trybrid gun and when I shoot major in it, it is alot softer and less dot movement than the shorty. I've tried 4756 and n105 and the dot moves all over the place and it slaps me hard in the hand.That being said I just shot my first master classifier with it but just don't really like the feel of it.I feel like I am waiting for the dot on alot of shots.

I'm going to shoot the next two matches with my 5 inch and see how I feel about it.