Understanding 8-round Neutrality

[MoNsTeR]

The relevant rule AFAIK:

US 1.2.1 Principle Courses of Fire:

Courses of fire shall not require more than eight (8) rounds to be fired from any one position; however, course designers may allow other targets to be shot at from any one position with the eight (8) rounds, providing that the shot challenges the competitor and that the added targets are also available from another position.

(BTW, why did USPSA make me type that? The rulebook PDF doesn't allow copy & pasting!!!)

I see two ways to interpret this rule. The first (but not necessarily the most obvious) is that the course cannot attach more than 8 rounds worth of targets to a shooting position, but that targets available from multiple positions don't count. So you could have a longitudinal vision barrier, with 4 IPSC targets on the left, 4 on the right, and 4 plates in the center. The paper targets are only visible from the corresponding side of the barrier, but the plates are visible from both sides. Therefore it is only the arrays of paper targets (8 rounds' worth) that are "required" to be shot from a certain position.

The other interpretation is much simpler. The course cannot require more than 8 shots to be fired from a position, period. The above stage with two positions and 20 required shots could therefore not possibly be allowed, because 2 positions times 8 rounds max each equals 16 rounds, and since 16 < 20 then clearly more than 8 rounds must be fired from some position.

Having typed them out, the first one seems a lot less likely to be the right one, but I'd like to be sure, particularly since I've seen stages seemingly built on that logic.

I also have another, related question. Essentially, what is a "shooting position"? Clearly, a box is a shooting position. Somewhat less clearly, an area designated in the course description (e.g.: Shooting Area A, B, etc.) is a shooting position. But what of a stage whose course description reads in its entirety "Draw and engage all targets as they become visible."? If there's just one big "Shooting Area A", how is a "shooting position" defined and how does that relate to the issue of 8-round neutrality?

[Flexmoney]

I think that a "shooting position" might be getting a better definition in the new rulebook. Until then, here is what I use when designing stages....

If the shooter doesn't have to take a step, then that is just one position (there are exceptions, this is just a basic guideline). I think of one window (port, doorway, etc.) as a position. Going from seated to standing can be considered a change of position.

On the 8 rounds...

If you have a window with 8 shots at paper, then another window with 8 shots at paper (total = 16 shots, from 2 positions), then that is legal.

If you add a plate to the above stage that can be shot from either position (making it 17 rounds for 2 positions) that would not be legal...you would have to fire more than 8 form one of the positions.

As for a "box" being a position...what's a "box"??? I ask that, because shooting boxes have been eliminated in IPSC/USPSA. The only legal way to use them is by the loophole for smaller matches found in 1.1.5. Even then, boxes should only be used if you are short on resources (like manpower and props).

[Vince Pinto]

In a nutshell, the rule means a COF cannot require you (i.e. you have no choice) to shoot more than 8 rounds from a single position. For example, 4 paper targets and 1 popper which are only visible from Point X.

What you can do is have 4 paper targets and 1 popper visible from Point X provided the excess shot is also visible from another position. For example, you might have a port where the 4 paper targets are really close and the popper is at 40 metres, but the popper is also visible from another port which makes it an easier shot at 10 metres.

This way, the competitor can take longer for the more difficult shot from the first port or he can shoot just the easier paper targets first, then move on and shoot the popper later (usually with other targets) from another position.

Hence he's not required to shoot all 9 shots from one position, but he has the option.

Hope this helps.