rz317

I'd buy one for sure.

I've played around with varius shot sizes in the last couple years, but now I just stick to #7.5 for everything. In the past I never went to a match without spreaders, heavy #4, and 00 buck (if allowed) tucked away in my range bag. What I found was that I rarely needed to make a change, and if I did, sticking with #7.5 and just swiching to a tighter or more open choke did the trick. For me, this just simplifies things. RZ

LM is what stays in my gun almost all the time. In addition I carry 2 other chokes: CYL and Full, both of which only get used a couple times a season.

Jon, I just sent you a PM regarding this. RZ

Jon, We get many new shooters at our matches at ACC. There is a lot of good info on this forum on getting started in 3-Gun. Personally, I don't suggest going out and investing in a lot of new gear until you have shot a couple matches. It is very common for many new shooters to use borrowed gear at our matches. However if there is one piece of equipment I do suggest investing in right away, it is a quality magazine extension for your 11-87, if that is what you plan to use for 3-Gun. I recommend getting at least a +4 extension. More shotshell capacity can save you a lot of frustration. RZ

ATLANTA CONSERVATION CLUB 2010 MULTI-GUN MATCH SCHEDULE March 14 - Speed Shotgun May 9 - Multi-Gun July 11 - Speed Shotgun September 12 - Multi-Gun November 14th - Multi-Gun This year ACC will be hosting threeMulti-Gun matches. Our Multi-Gun matches in 2010 will be run under IMGA style rules, instead of USPSA rules as in prior years. Our website will be updated soon to reflect this, with a downloadable set of our rules. Also, for the first time ever, ACC will be hosting two "Speed Shotgun" matches. These will be shotgun-only matches and will be run under a "Pro Am" style format. Again, our website will be updated soon to reflect this, and give more details about the match along with rules. Thanks for your interest and hope to see you come out! Ryan Zamberlan Multi-Gun Match Director Atlanta Conservation Club Atlanta, IN www.atlantacc.net

Sounds like fun! I'll be there for sure. Can't wait to see what you've got cooked up for us, stage-wise. RZ

This was an awesome club match! I couldn't have been more surprised, or pleased for my 1st Ohio 3-Gun match. Needless to say, I was very impressed. Four stages, all Multi-Gun... no dinky little "filler" stages, etc. Also, the fact that every stage had shotgun, but the match still had the most balanced roundcount of any match I've ever shot, is quite impressive. The monster rifle barricade, "V-Tac 9-Hole", was an treat too. Stages like this match had really show that a club with limited range for rifle can, with a little creativity and ingenuity, put together a stellar rifle challenge. The "V-Tac 9-Hole" is something that I'll be building for my club next year. Thanks to the Michael and all the other volunteers who helped to make this match possible. I will be returning for sure. Ryan Zamberlan Multi-Gun Match Director Atlanta Conservation Club Atlanta, IN www.atlantacc.net

Mr. Furbee, Thanks so much for posting. This has explained a lot. However, who was the was the "guy in CA"? As Sinistral said, this history shouldn't be lost to the ages. Thanks, RZ

I just sent Mr. Furbee an email... hopefully he will help shed some light on this.

The only Blade-Tech products I've ever owned have been their holsters, and I have been very satisfied with their quality. It's personal preference as to wear your rifle mags. I've been using a 3-Gun Gear T-Rig with dual rifle pouches for several years. I like the thigh rig because I can use my USPSA pistol rig, and just add the T-rig and shell caddies when I play 3-Gun. It's easy to unclip the T-Rig when there isn't rifle on a stage. I find the thigh position fast and intuitive for me, even while prone. I always prefer overkill when it comes to carrying additional ammo, and I like the extra insurance of having a 2 spare rifle mags on me. Overkill always works. Good luck!

Glad you enjoyed the match, Rennie! Man, that scramble of mine for a mag was a Chinese fire drill if there ever was one. Numerous people have mentioned how goofy that whole scene was, and believe me, I'm still laughing about what it must have looked like. RZ

I've been curious about this myself, and know what you mean about Google not really bringing up a lot of info. I've wondered if IMGA is an actual body, or ever once was, who started it, etc. After looking around on 3gunrules.com, it seems that the earliest IMG rule set I have found is 2003, so we know it is at least that old.

Here are the stages for this Sunday's Multi-Gun match at Atlanta Conservation Club. Please keep in mind that these are diagrams only and not to scale, etc. The actual stages may look a little different, after they are actually set up. Donkey.pdf Mr._F.pdf Sassy.pdf Werewolf.pdf

This is the second year I shot this match. I shoot it because it is fun and different, and extreme. Also as a 3-Gun MD myself, I fully appreciate the time and hard work that goes into even a club match let alone a state match. I will agree that at least in the instance of the blindfolded stage, the briefing that our squad was given, needed to be better. There was too much to be left up to interpretation, where the shooter could just as logically concluded a completely different meaning, regardless how few or how many others did or didn’t. However, it’s done now and being penalized on the stage didn’t cost me an earlier trip to a prize table, so to me, that’s not the biggest issue. This is… The weekend following this match I attended the Ozark 3-Gun Championship, where I was able to discuss the Blindfold stage, with other fellow shooters whom did not attend the MI State 3-Gun, I noticed that more than the unorthodox style of the stage, the theme of “Rival Gang Invasion” is what shocked them. Now that I’ve had time to digest everything, I think that using any criminal based theme in shooting sports like this is a bad idea. It was mentioned in an earlier post that a lot of thought and discussion went into Stage 1. I’m curious, did anyone considered how such a theme, where the competitor is a playing a member of a notorious criminal gang may not have been a very responsible choice? Frankly, I find it embarrassing to the sport of 3-Gun to associate ourselves with that kind of activity. We’re the good guys! We, the shooting sportsmen represent responsible gun ownership. Simply using different terms such as “red and blue”, would have been better. Imagine if themes like “Rival Gang Invasion” became the norm, and what message this would send out. Picture talking to a new shooter, or one of another discipline, and trying to get him/her to come out and give 3-Gun a try. He/she, with limited knowledge of the sport responds: “3-Gun… isn’t that where you pretend to be a criminal?” Think about this, those who oppose our freedom don’t need additional excuses. It would be a shame for the dynamic sport of 3-Gun to somehow be associated with training for criminal activity.

Both sound like excellent ideas... for the next match at Wildcat. RZ

Atlanta Conservation Club- Multi-Gun Match, Oct. 11, 2009 Come out and join us for Atlanta’s last Multi-Gun match of the season. It will be a fun and challenging test of your rifle, handgun, and shotgun skills. This month, to try to get everyone finished earlier, there will be 4 courses of fire: two stages requiring 3 guns, one stage requiring 2 guns, and one all shotgun stage. If you shot one of our Multi-Gun matches earlier this year, you can expect this match’s difficulty level to be very similar. If you didn’t shoot one of our Multi-Gun matches earlier this season, you can expect this match to be a little more demanding than ACC matches in past seasons— shots will be a bit more technical and physical. MATCH DATE: Sunday Oct. 11 Registration: 9:00AM Shooters' Meeting: 9:45 AM Match starts immediately following shooters' meeting RULES: USPSA Multi-Gun equipment rules - Time Plus scoring. www.uspsa.org Approximate Round Counts: Handgun: 34 Rifle: 31 Birdshot: 39 Slugs: 4 Total: 104 MATCH FEE: $20 per shooter SET-UP: Due to the complexity of Multi-Gun stages, some set-up will be required on the Saturday before each match date. There will also be some set up the day of the match at 8:00 AM. Please help if you can. Contact the Match Director for details if you could help out. Remember, the more help we get from volunteers like you, the better the matches will be! NOTE: that all matches at AtlantaCC are conducted under a COLD RANGE as per USPSA rules. All guns must be either holstered (or bagged) at all times, unloaded, hammer down, with no magazine inserted. Long guns should remain bagged, or in a rack with an "empty chamber indicator" (flag) in place. It is the shooter's responsibility to ensure that the muzzle of any gun is never pointed in an unsafe direction. You may only handle your gun only at the direction of the range officer (RO), or in the designated "safe areas." You may not handle any ammunition or loaded magazines in the safe areas. Violation of these or any other safety rules shall result in a match disqualification. Atlanta Conservation Club 29595 Leonard Rd. Atlanta, IN 46031 Directions: At the intersection of US 31 and 296th Street, turn east. You should see Lisas Pie Shop on the east side of 31 at this intersection. Continue driving east on 296th Street for 6 miles. You should cross highway 19. 1 mile after crossing highway 19 you should will come to the intersection of Leonard Road and 296th Street. Atlanta Conservation Club is located at the South East corner of Leonard Road and 296th Street.

Ryan, Well said from the guy that got 3rd place in Tac Optic. Why would you want to make any changes at all? The painted plates would make it slower and messier but we are playing a game not training for combat or LE. So why not make the game about shooting not about target identification? In regards to the spinning plates. I have no doubt that I was not hitting the plates as well as I could have been. Especially with my pistol! I think I could hear you all laughing after ever shot was for fired. I don;t have a problem at all with a plate that spins and needs another shot or two but when you simply can't knock it off becauseof fault lines limiting your lateral movement then I have a problem. I was using WWB 9mm and a Walmart 8 shot with a Modified choke so it wasn't light loads or loose patterns that caused those plates to spin. Think of it this way. Say on stage 10 when there were 2 or 3 chances at shooting a double and you shot for the double but spun one or both plates sideways and could not knock them off You would lose 10-20 penalty seconds plus the time it took you to shoot. You gotta fix the plates. Jesse, I said before that the game isn't exactly like real life nor should it be. I mentioned that the sport is combat themed as are the guns most of us use... I mean, two of the four divisions have the word "Tactical" in them for crying' out loud. So, "Why not make the game about shooting not about target identification?", you ask? Because the nature of 3-Gun, or any other flavor of Practical Shooting isn't just about the shooting. Games like Bullseye are more "just about the shooting". 3-Gun stresses ammo management, problem solving, stage breakdown, gun handling, and timing, just to name a few... and yes in some cases such as the unpainted plates, target ID. If the game was just about the shooting, re-shoots would be given for gun malfunctions, because clearing a jam on the clock isn't a test of "shooting". "Mental or "memory" stages with hidden targets like we see in USPSA all the time would be thrown out too, because memorizing a plan of attack isn't "just about shooting". As for the light changing and the plates being more difficult to find... if we make exceptions for this, then where would we stop? These are natural things that we have no control over as someone else mentioned: rain, wind, fog, sun light, direction of the sun, temp, humidity, etc. This could go on and on to ridiculous lengths. All we can do is just suck it up and keep on blasting. RZ

+1

As far as the 5x5 plates go, I disagree about the paint. From an efficiency point of view, painting the plates adds another step, and if you think handling the lead covered plates during reset is nasty, adding sticky, semi-dry spray paint to the mix makes the situation even nastier. Leaving the plates unpainted takes out the variable having to worry about them consistently looking the same for everyone. This sport has martial roots and combat themed. That doesn’t mean that it is or should be just like real life combat situations, but I mean, come on... most if not all of us are using rifles built on battle rifle platforms, combat-style handguns, etc. The plates represent the "bad guys". The unpainted plates are harder to find in a natural setting, vs. painted plates in a square bay, which I think that is a good thing. Unpainted plates better represent this, because they are more camouflaged. The bad guys wouldn't be dressed in some color which obviously contrasted the environment, so you'll be able to better identify and neutralize them. Just like the brown paper targets are tougher to see in the woods than in a wide open bay. Natural terrain offers several challenges to the sport, which I welcome because they create a more meaningful and challenging shooting environment. Footing isn't always as ideal as pressed gravel in a bay, which is the whole point, to trudge along and adapt to the environment. I for one always prefer natural terrain over bays. As far as the plates needing additional welding, I've personally heard many shooters complain about this at several matches. I have never seen a plate spin if the shooter made a solid shot, unless he/she was using too light of a load or not enough choke. I don't think that there needs to be a lip on the back, that would make it too easy to knock the plates off. What has worked to minimize the spin issue at our local club matches is making the base and stand narrower. If a 5x5 plate has a 2.5x2.5 base on a 2.5x2.5 stand, then there's little chance of it spinning, yet it has enough room to move on the stand and not fall if the shooter didn't put enough pattern on it.

Awesome match at a fantastic facility, and a top notch crew. I'll be coming back next year for sure. Thanks, RZ

Brymer, I'm working on some match video footage and I'd really like to include the stage names on a title page. Could you please provide me with the names of Stage 3 and Stage 5? Thanks, RZ

If we opt to use a light mounted on our handgun, does it have to fit in our holster, or can we begin the stage out of the holster?

Will we need to bring our own flashlights/weapon-lights for any dark stages at this match?

Have there been any updates as far as details of this match go, such as round counts and/or stages?