Morphire
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Posts posted by Morphire
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Mikes score twice the highest scoring value as a penalty. That would mean a -10 and not a -5 per mike. (9.4.4)
There is no way to make two targets count as one target. There is a specific rule that you can't make one target two targets (4.1.5) but none stating the reverse.
FTE's count for "each scoring target" so no doubling up to make two targets only incur 1 fte if either of them is not shot. If both are not engaged then it's 2 FTEs. (9.5.7)
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I'm used to working with a layout grid where X" = Y' and everything is scaled to this. The Sketchup diagrams I've looked at do not seem to work this way but I'm guessing that it may be possible to do this, which will make learning easier because I'm used to working with things from a plan view (overhead). In any case, it looks like I'm going to be spending some time with the tutorials.
The trick it so change to Parallel Projection under the Camera menu and then click on the overhead button (looks like the overhead view of the roof of a house) in the toolbar to get the flattened overhead CAD view you're used to. I made a layer called "Grid" and drew a series of layout lines with 1' x 1' spacing so I could get a better handle on things. Select all the lines and lock them so you can't mess them up once you have them built. You can opt to show this layer when you need it and hide it when you need to do things like export a 2d model. It works really well. I don't even bother to make anything but a back wall for my "berms" and I design from the back of the berm in the middle. As long as you know the width of the berms you are eventually using then you just have to stick within those borders. You can always draw side walls for berms if you choose to. It's pretty simple with the rectangle and push/pull tools. Draw a rectangle on the ground and then pull it upwards to make the height of your berm. Hint* as you're pulling the rectangle upwards type 12' on your keyboard and the rectangle will snap to that exact height. Then select the top inner edge of the wall you just made and push/pull it towards the other top edge to angle back the sides of the berm. It's super simple once you see how to step through it.
Eventually you will want to kick out of Parallel Projection and back into Perspective camera mode so you can do virtual pans and check all your angles for shoot throughs and hidden targets. Reality is that you will not be able to super accurately match the drawing unless you want to lay out your real life stages with a tape measure and grid too, so try not to fret over the preciseness of the sketchup file as the actual setup will be close but not exactly to the diagram.
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Good point, Spanky! Didn't think of that and the barrel may not even allow you to see the no shoot so it may not be an option to shoot the steel through it.
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What is your reasoning for the no shoot between the barrel and the steel? You're already forcing the shooting position with the barrel and I don't see any other target but the steel being affected by that no shoot. If a shooter hits the no shoot and knocks down the steel you have a mandatory reshoot for REM. plus it will be almost impossible for the RO to see if it's a no-=shoot knock down due to the barrel shooting position. Perhaps move the no shoot to behind the steel to force a big slow down on that target instead?
Also with the barricade (and this is an issue with almost every barricade I've run across) how do you handle a junior shooter or other smaller shooter? Most barricade designs have the port so high that a junior shooters is SOL at being able to shoot through it. I know it's just a sketch up model but it's something to keep in mind if you have a set of fully blocked targets that can only be shot through the port of a barricade or wall like you do here. Can a Junior shooter make it up to that port reasonably? I'm a big fan of narrow ports that extend in a rectangle up and down (portrait) instead of square ports or rectangles that extended side to side (landscape) for that very reason.
Best thing I can say about the stage though is this. I WANT to shoot it! Looks like it'd be a fun challenge with a ton of different target designs all crammed into one seemingly simple stage. =D
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Without something to hide the bear trap, that target is going to be shot before it's activated.
Also I don't believe you can stipulate that shots must pass underneath the bar and between the barrels unless this is a level I match/course of fire. And if it's indeed and outdoor match you will likely get some grumbling about freestyle shooting in the process. Especially since this is a field course with very free movement in the shooting area. How will you know that all scoring shots passed under the bar and between the barrels? That will turn into a scoring nightmare and a gaming paradise. A few extra walls and you are covered though.
Also good luck constructing that target on the far left unless you have some seriously long staples. Most staples only make it through 2 or 3 layers of targets max. Those look 5 deep.
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Hello everyone.
I've designed stages from scratch for a few different bigger matches now and have come up with some very nice shortcuts that have helped me get out of the design mode and into production. They are based on two very simple techniques. Cut/Copy and Paste, and the Push/Pull tool.
Cut/Copy and Paste
Most of us work from a template that either contains a basic stage resembling a berm or a platform with a backstop. Often times there is a big bunch of props pre-populated in that template that we proceed to move into place or option drag into place. SketchUp being what it is, the biggest complaint new users have is that pesky problem with placing objects above or below the plane of the shooting stage. Targets are either buried in the ground or they are floating above it. The basic way we teach people around this is to be specific about where you grab an object when you drag it into place. If you grab it by one of the bottom most corner points of the stand then you can use that point to place it on the plane of the shooting bay to ensure that the prop isn't buried or floating. Very tedious and time consuming.
Now here is the time saving shortcut. Take the time to work on your starting template making sure every single prop is already placed on the plane of the shooting bay properly. Then when you need a prop, simply select it and copy it to the clipboard using edit>copy or a keyboard equivalent. When you then paste the prop, it is automatically locked to the same plane where the original copied object was as long as your arrow is pointing at a clear area of the shooting bay and not another prop. This constraint allows you to much more simply place objects using bigger, less precise movements of your mouse instead of all that zoom and pan crap trying to make sure the exact point is place in the exact plane. I pretty much never just move an object once it's placed in my model. I always cut and paste it again so I don't have to lock it to the plane of the bay. This saves me steps with every move I make.
Push/Pull
Now the other is a BIG one. I don't think most people use the push pull object anywhere near as much as they could. If you need hardcover on a target, zoom in and use the pen tool to start clicking out the outline of the hard cover you need on the face of the target. Finish by double-clicking your original starting point to complete this into a closed object. Now grab your paint bucket and paint this new hard cover area black. You will notice right away that it doesn't look right as SketchUp is trying to blend these two different colored objects into the same plane. The trick is to grab the push/pull tool and point it at the newly drawn hardcover area and pull it out away from the target just the littlest bit. This will add a thin layered opaque hard cover object on top of the target just like hard cover should in real life. You notice the targets scoring perfs and letters don't show through the hard cover when you do it this way too. Personally I remove all the scoring letters on all my target models anyway as all they do is complicate the model and make it preview slower and print slower. They are an unneeded complication IMO.
Another trick for the push pull tool is even cooler and saves a TON of time. Fault lines are a bear to generate in sketch-up if you are actually trying to model them one stick at a time as I've seen so many do. Remember that sketch-up allows you the freedom to design without mimicking real life. If you need to make a shooting area, get into parallel projection and take an overhead view of your shooting area. Now turn on your grid and use the pencil tool to draw out the outer edge of the shooting area on the ground being sure to complete the area by double-clicking your originating point to finish. Then use the offset tool to grab that outline and drag inside the shooting area a smidgen to create the width of the fault line. Now use the paint bucket to paint between these parallel lines neon orange or whatever color you like. Then use the push/pull tool to pull upwards on the orange area to raise it up and make your completed fault lines. Pretty slick, yes? =]
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Stage finals are posted on the website!
Direct link is here
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Match Applications are now online under the FORMS tab. The direct link is here.
Kevin
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Hello everyone. I'm the webmaster for the GA State match again this year and I'm just starting the BENOS thread on here for this year's match so we can keep information flowing as simply as possible. This thread will be linked from the official website for the match as well if you want a quick way to find it again. The website is the same as last year at www.GAStateChampionship.com so look shortly to see match information as well as downloadable applications. The apps should be live in a day or so as we know people are have been asking about them.
The dates for this year's match are September 9-10 and it will be returning to Cherokee Gun Club in Gainseville, GA. The match format for this year will be a little different than the past couple of years. Small squads will be used and competitors will shoot the entire match in a half day. RO's will shoot on Friday along with a few possible competitor spots while the rest of the competitors will shoot either a Saturday morning session OR a Saturday afternoon session. An awards presentation will immediately follow as well a sponsor raffle for major prizes. As in years past, the majority of the raffle will be drawn for while the competitors are shooting on Saturday and you will just need to check against your competitor number to see if you've won anything. Major prizes (eg. guns) will still be drawn live at the awards ceremony but you do not need to be present to win. We should have an FFL on hand to facilitate transfers if needed. The plan is for a very efficient match that gets you home and enjoying the rest of your weekend after a fantastic day of shooting with friends.
Peter Oliver has been rummaging around in that devious British brain of his and I'm certain we will see another set of world class stage designs that have a nasty habit of being able to be shot a zillion different ways. He keeps talking about making everyone "walk the plank" in this evil Pirate voice that has all of us here worried. From the mind that brought you Field of Steel I and II, you know it'll be a fun and challenging set of stages this year.
We would also like to give a big hearty welcome to Glock as our match sponsor as well as a quickly growing list of Stage and Banner sponsors. Please check the website for links and check often. The sponsors list will be updated continually up until the match starts. Patronize these great companies and tell then you saw them on the GA State Championship website while thanking them for their support.
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I believe they use it at South River Gun Club in Covington, GA. They built a number of portable walls that were approximately 6'x6' panels with the outside legs extending below to make simple uprights for the wall. They attach two of them together along one upright with hinges and this makes them simple to carry, adjustable from a small to a long wall, or even allows for an angled wall too. The centers of the panels are covered in what appears to be landscaping cloth but they did have to cut wind holes in the fabric. They usually drive longer rebar into the ground and simply wiretie the legs to it to put up the walls. They are very light but have lasted many seasons from the few years I've been shooting there. Not sure who came up with the idea but Larry Turner is the USPSA MD at that range and he's a crafty SOB so I wouldn't doubt if it was his idea.
This would seem to be a good material to use for walls if it's not too windy, but I'm not sure if it will work. Anyone have any experience with it? Also, what do you use for uprights and how do you secure it to the uprights?
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Multiple views helps. Take a top down view without perspective and possibly another with the camera in front but very high up. Combine those with a nice isometric and you can manage getting the point across to those that are setting up the stage.
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Hi guys,
I apologize if I am starting this in the wrong spot,
however need some info if possible.
I have attended Area6, 2010 and am planning on coming for 2011.
It is a long drive for me, so I need to pre-plan on this.
Anyone has an idea, where, when and who is hosting the match.
Thanks in advance
Peter
According to http://uspsa6.org/
USPSA Area 6 Championship, Apr 15-17, at Universal Shooting Academy, Frostproof, FL
Hope that helps. =]
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I picked one up and I said "Hey this is a REALLY nice CZ75" and then they sabre rep told me the MSRP and I said "Hey thanks, see you later".
Everyone says that but no one seems to ever say what the MSRP is. Got a ballpark for those of us that are curious? I'm assuming you are meaning the 3000 Production competition model or some other model?
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Where and when is the match check inn? I called Comfort Inn and they were overbooked so we will be staying at another hotel. I just want to make sure we all get checked in on time. Also what time is the shooters meeting for Saturday morning shooters?
Match Check-in has typically happened at the clubhouse on the range starting Thursday evening if we have staff on hand. We can try and update you on that as time gets closer though. Officially, registration is at the range (clubhouse) starting Friday at 7AM and continuing during the match on Friday. Saturday starts back up at 7:00AM and continues through 1:30 when the afternoon shooter's meeting begins.
Friday shooter's meeting is at 7:30AM with shooting to begin at 8:00. Saturday is the same. Sunday has no shooter's meeting with shooting beginning at 8:00AM.
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After reading the article in Front Sight and checking out SphinxArms.com I'm kind of intrigued and would like to investigate further. They show a distributer in Canada but their website doesn't list any Sphinx pistols. Anyone know of any distribution channels in the US? Anyone have one of these babies that could give a first hand on it?
Thanks!
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EXACTLY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SAY IT IS A SHADOW I HAD ANGUS WORK ON, NOW THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT IT ISNT A SHADOW AND IT IS A SHADOW TARGET
Direct from Angus. The Shadow Target is nothing more than a Shadow and a kit of parts that the Custom Shop put's together. If someone did question that you are using a Shadow Target and Amidon, who is the last authority on this subject, has ruled that it is a new gun that must be on the approval list then you would have to show proof that you had purchased a Shadow and proof that you had the slide milled and a new sight inserted. Ridiculous I know, but saying that you had the work done isn't enough to prove it or survive a challenge. The burden is on the shooter. Reality is, who is ever going to challenge it? It's just going to look like a Shadow that's had the sight milled. Why would someone question it? Still to follow the rules, you'd have to CYA with documentation.
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I asked about this here before (I can try to find the thread) and was advised it was legal.
ETA: Here we go - http://www.brianenos...1entry1173472
Always great to learn new things!! Thanks!
As an aside I am not a big fan of having some targets worth more points than others. It can get hairy when two shooters have a single FTE but one earns an extra mike simply due to the WSB requirement. Or if you have close shots requiring 3 shots while long only require 2 then it gives an advantage to the hoser shooters and less to the long range shooters. Just seems to skew the stage challenge. That being said I actually did enjoy shooting like that in IDPA so I'm a little MPD.
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There are classifiers that specify more so I don't see why not.
There is also at least one classifier that specifies different number of shots on different targets (I don't remember the name of it).
ETA: 4.2.3 Paper targets must never be required to receive more than 12 hits before being scored and patched.
I could have sworn that there were rules against having different targets specified with different numbers of scoring shots but I've been all through the rule book and can't find it. Doesn't mean it isn't in there... just that I can't find it.
I'm sure others will chime in if they can find an issue.
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Well...
Being the guy that BurningSquirrels and CFeree are referring to that borked it up on his first stage at the MR command...
Seriously folks. Just keep your mind in the process. Wipe the oil from your hands and make sure you check for oil on the hammer when you gun up at the beginning of the match. Make it routine and you won't have happen what happened to me. Oh and I laughed and unloaded and showed clear and put my gun away and RO'd the rest of the match for my squad. A DQ sucks but at least mine was in a safe direction while not moving and at the full attention of an RO. I DQ'd but I'm very happy I did it as safely as I could considering I totally screwed the pooch in the process. LOL
Oh and I'm a BIG proponent of simply using the thumb and index of your weak hand to firmly grab the hammer (stock or comp hammer both the same) so that the meat of both fingers presses into the hole in the hammer. Then pull back and press the trigger with your strong hand and lower the hammer with you weak. No need to complicate things with adding a finger into the mix to block the FP or taking it to half cock. Why go through a potentially dangerous and stressful process twice each time you have to decock the gun? Makes no sense to me.
So to answer the thread. Yes it happens. It happens to experienced shooters as well as novices. It's part of owning and shooting a DA/SA gun in production if you don't have a decocker. Grab a decocker model and Have Matt Mink do his magic on it if you are concerned about it and you will have a great trigger on it. If you decide to go with the standard version, Matt's trigger job will be just that much more awesome for the effort. All my CZ's are standard models without the decock lever.
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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the shadow does not come with a FPB so the question kind of answers itself. That's the reason why it's becoming the go to CZ gun for Production now.
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Might want to be careful with the way CZ produces different versions of the same gun with different names. There is a good chance that USPSA will consider this a new gun and require it to be approved for use in Production Division. A note to John Amidon would be prudent before spending your cash. I know it makes no sense but that's the way of things.
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Is there any word on the 2010 IDPA Nationals when and where they are going to take place. I know it is around Tulsa, OK like last year but what month? I need to start planning for it now. Thanks.
Jason
Did you try www.idpa.com?
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I think bashing the guys involved is bad form. Especially volunteers who are giving their time to try and make our sport better. Having said that, I do like the way they handled the production updates last year. I'm not sure how much the rules changed from the original version to the final release, but I'm sure the rules makers received helpful feedback by showing them to the general public before making them official.
Keep in mind that the Production Rules changes of last year were not published for review and request by the gen pop. They were just listing what was going to be put into effect. The rules had already been finalized and the only thing left was a waiting period before they were implemented. It was simply a warning to get your equipment squared so that on the day it was implemented, you wouldn't be illegal.
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www.psashootout.com
It is one of the biggest falling steel matches in the Nation, bar none. You have the ability to shoot up to four guns. Stock auto and Revo, and Open Revo and Open Auto. It is also the second largest Revolver match in the US, second only to the IRC.
It fills up in a couple of days. You can shoot Thursday through Sunday. If you need any further info after checking out the website and the past threads on this match please let us know!
DougC
Thanks everyone! Great information. Forgive the rant above, please. It's just frustrating having to do all the extra leg work just to find out, like this one, I'm too far away to attend or just not interested.
Engaging Targets from under a wall – What is the proper call
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Alright I've got a couple of observations to consider.
We are now making a definable difference between a hardcover wall, a hardcover wall, and a hardcover wall. Sounds silly doesn't it? But the difference is that one is constructed of actual impenetrable material such as steel, another is made out of some other opaque material that you can't see through but you can shoot through, and the final one is made of something that you can both see through and shoot through. The weird part is I can't find any rule(s) that justify making any differentiation between any of these "different" hardcover based on construction materials used. Troy and the other instructors appear to be making a determination that all of these wall are not created equal if my understanding is correct. Their justification for not allowing the FTSA/FTE is that there were two holes in the target so it MUST have been shot at. The ONLY reason there were two holes in the target comes down to construction materials of the hardcover wall. If the wall were made of steel would the instructors have said the shooter was engaging a target behind the truly impenetrable hardcover wall or purposely engaging a prop with all the possible bad outcomes that entails?
Troy, you may have answered this in your many replies but I seem to have missed it so I'll ask it here. If there had not been two hits on the target, would you and the instructiors' argument that the target was demonstrably "shot at" fall apart? That appeared to be your basis so I ask.
I recall in my RO class with George he made the point that we should position ourselves as ROs so that we can follow the index of a shooter to determine if a target was engaged or not. If we could not definitively determine that a target was engaged, then we had to, by default, ignore the possibility of an FTE. In other words, you had to know for certain that the person did not engage that target. In this scenario, the target was engaged from a place where the target was unavailable due to it being behind a wall - an impenetrable wall even though it's construction was of something other than steel. If he then made it through RIC without engaging it from a location where he could actually see the target to shoot at it, then I'd have a definitive FTE call to make. I believe this to be a fundamentally different scenario than the swinging target passing behind hardcover scenario that others have mentioned. In that scenario, the target was available to be shot from the position where it was engaged. The possibility for an engagement exists in that scenario where it didn't in the original argument. That point seems key to me.
That seems to be the point for me in awarding the FTE. The target was unavailable to be shot at from the position where it was engaged. And further more, the target was NOT engaged form a position where it could be shot at. If the walls had been constructed of steel, I believe this discussion would have taken a different direction.
As for the use of a Forbidden Action to award a reshoot, the wording of 2.3.1.1.b. gets in the way for me. A FA should not be used to correct a shooter's bad interpretation of a good rule. Nor should it be used to compel shooter movement when the stage already has, by the rules, provided everything necessary to compel that movement. Score it an FTE or not, I can not find any justification for declaring a FA on a perfectly legal stage.
/drl