[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

7 hours ago, Joe4d said:

"Stockpile primed cases"
If the primers have a decent dent in them only other thing it could be is they got contaminated.

They are stored upside down in a sealed ammunition case.  Impossible.  Too OCD for something simple like contamination, lol.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

2 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Questions:

 

1. Do you try to fire the cartridges again instead of cycling and ejecting them?
2. Do you have a gauge to actually measure the primer seating depth? Running finger over them is not sufficient, they must be lower than flush when seated for reliable ignition.
3. Are your guns polished and have lighter hammer springs installed?
4. What reloading press and primer seating process are you using?

 

CCI primers are known for light strike issues on light hammer springs. Use WSP or Federal primers. 

As it has been stated if the primer ignites, even with zero powder, the bullet will engage the rifling and get stuck in barrel.

Your double feed issues could be OAL, bullet profile or possibly magazine related. 

Too many unknown variables to properly answer your issues. 

-Someone new to shooting pulled the trigger twice on the P-09 when the cartridge didn’t fire the first time and I told them to rack the slide to get rid of it.

-I have Vernier calipers with a depth gauge that I use on any primers I’m still suspicious of as far as their depth goes.

-Both guns are completely factory spec still

-Dillon Square Deal, I decap and prime separately (2 step process decap and prime, stockpile the primed cases, then load as I need them).

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

I think the double feed sorted itself out.  The CZ P-09 is brand new and still being broken in, plus it’s Combat Tupperware and I’m used to shooting the much heavier Shadow 2.  Just an adjustment in my grip was needed to fix that.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

3 hours ago, lgh said:

It's a primer related problem. Most common primer problem in my experience is a high primer. A few might have slipped past your inspection routine.  Look at the offending rounds very carefully. Then re-shoot them to see if it was at first high and then got fully seated on the first shot. Make sure your FP and spring are good to go. If that doesn't solve it, change primers.

 

One last thing ... I notice you de-prime and then tumble again. Did media get stuck in the flash hole? It happens and is easy to check.

Those casings are CLEAN.  Like near factory clean.  Compressed air blows out any residual debris.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

44 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

How do you know the primers are fully seated? Did you re-strike any of the duds? If they go bang after a second strike then the primers aren't fully seated. What primer brand are you using?

I’ve had primers that have not fully seated.  I run my fingers over the primers when I’ve put them primer up in a case box and the box is full, easy enough to tell the difference and see the difference.  Those go through the primer seating cycle again (because I am only going to the point of pre-priming all of the cases before they all get loaded).  That re-seated primer ammo has all proven out, no problems.

 

Using CCI small pistol primers.  Again, no problem with over 2000 rounds of reloads.

 

Thanks for the suggestion on restriking the duds, I will give that a try, I’d be surprised if it’s the primer seating, I’m pretty OCD when it comes to loading, but there’s always an offhand chance, but not close to a whole box of ammunition so far.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

27 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

You haven't been reloading long enough if you've never had a dud round.

Hahah, I guess I made quota yesterday and today and up until yesterday and  today, I have never had a dud.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

27 minutes ago, superdude said:

If the primers were firing but the powder does not burn, the bullet is almost always pushed out of the case by the force from the primer and into the riflings. Upon extraction the bullet generally stays stuck in the barrel.

 

Are you getting light firing pin strikes?  Maybe a weak hammer spring, light firing pin, or dirty firing pin channel.

 

By the way, you should have zero dud rounds. 

 

The primers are not firing because the bullet is intact and still held within the brass, no change in the COL either.  This is happening with the new P-09 and the tried and true Shadow 2 and only with the loads using the VV N340, everything else is going through fine (VV N320 and Winchester 231).  I don’t think it’s either of the pistols.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

38 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Primers may not be fully seated.  

 

Or, perhaps the brass wasn't dry after the "wash" cycle, or after spraying lubricant

on the cases.

 

Are the primers lighting up and the powder not firing ?    Or, are the primers dented

but not fired ?

Primers are fully seated

Brass fully dry

I roll the cases onto a very lightly oiled case lube pad

Primers not lighting up, I don’t think anyways. 

Dry media for final tumbling before priming and I check each and every case to make sure it’s clean inside, those that aren’t get scrubbed with a brass brush and then blown out with compressed air..  The washed and tumbled cases usually sit for a few weeks before I get around to reloading them.  This is the first time in over 2000 reloads that I’ve experienced this problem.  Pretty puzzling.  Everything else has fired flawlessly to date.  I’ve basically only changed one thing in my routine and that’s the powder, but that doesn’t make sense.  Time to pull the bullets.

[High number of Failure to Fires with reloaded ammo using VVN340]

I just reloaded about 500 rounds of 9mm using Vihtavuori N340 (4.0gr) with 147gr Campro RNFP bullets and CCI Small Pistol Primers and once fired range brass (that had been fired through my CZ Shadow 2.  I hadn’t had a chance to fire any of the rounds apart from a few rounds for putting them through the chronograph.   Yesterday I was shooting my brand new CZ P-09 using those rounds and was getting a lot of double feeds (some of that is user error, I’m used to shooting a much heavier Shadow 2 and part of it could be breaking in the new gun), I experienced a few misfires at the same time, but was more focused on the double feeds.  Today, no issue with double feeds, but the misfires seemed to be continual.  At least 2 per mag (mag holds 10) and it was happening in both the Shadow 2 and the P-09.  I have not experienced any problems with VV N320 which I am loading for my competition ammo also using 147gr Campro Bullets.  I ran at least 50 rounds of Winchester 231 with 124gr Hornady bullets through the P-09 without any problems today as well.  I am absolutely certain that each of the cases were loaded with the right measured amount of ammo because my process for reloading is as follows:  brass is washed, dried, tumbled, deprimed, washed, dried and tumbled again.  Then it is primed and loaded with powder.  I keep a close eye on the amount going in and weigh every round before storage.  I have narrowed it down to either a bad batch of primers, or the powder, but if it was the powder, then every cartridge would be misfiring. Unfortunately because I was mass producing, all the ammo with primers from different boxes have been mixed together.  When I get a misfire I am racking the slide and ejecting it, but I wonder if I should be doing this in case it’s a “Hang Fire” situation?  I am going to be pulling the dud bullets and see what’s going on inside.    Any thoughts on this and is it unusual to get that many dud rounds or what might be the cause?  Thanks

[Powders for 9my 147gr coated]

18 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

Longer = lower pressure = slower. Generally speaking the faster you push a bullet (within reason) the more accurate it will be. Depending on the powder you'll see a velocity difference of approximately 20-60 fps when changing the OAL.

 

P.S. Your OAL of 1.177 cannot be correct, I'd recheck that measurement.

 

P.P.S Here's an example of how the OAL might affect velocity.

 

Thank you for that explanation, I appreciate that!  You’re absolutely right that it wouldn’t take 1.177, it’ll chamber, but it failed the spin test.  I dropped it down to 1.10.  Reloading is turning out to be a lot more like cooking than I thought it would be and.here I am, right back in the kitchen.

[Bullet Getting Caught in the Rifling of Shadow 2 Barrel]

On 6/9/2017 at 10:57 AM, IDescribe said:

 

Should have been?    According to whom?  There is no design requirement for a specific length to the free-bore -- the distance between the head-spacing step and the leading edge of the rifling lands.  Different manufacturers ream the chamber with a free bore of different lengths, based on their design needs.  There are lots of places in the world where RN is the only profile that's legal.  And most military forces use FMJ-RN "ball" ammo for standard issue pistol ammo.  That's what these short-throated Eurpoean pistols are reamed for: RN.  The Springfield XD is a rebadged Croat pistol, and it's the same way.  And some Walther pistols are reamed with the same shorter free-bore.  There are others.  
 

So I'm not sure where the should have been comes from, especially when the bullets that can't be loaded in these short-throated chambers are rare.  Most of the people reaming their chambers aren't doing so because they want to use a bullet that won't work.  They're doing so because they want to create one load to use in all their pistols.  Which also means they aren't interested in tuning their loads to their specific pistols, which is one of the biggest advantages of reloading.  And it also means that they are either ignoring, or they haven't figured out that they can STILL have one load for all their pistols by loading to the pistol with the shortest maximum OAL and using THAT load in all of their pistols. Reaming is not necessary.  And it's only barely a convenience.

 

The primary concern would be a negative impact on accuracy.  As I said earlier in this thread, if you ask on Benos, barrel reaming is a no risk proposition that everyone should do, but if you ask at CZFirearms, reaming holds the risk of degrading accuracy, and while I can't tell you I've seen anyone at that forum who has done it and had accuracy suffer, some of the old-timers in that forum refer to people in the past who have had exactly that happen -- reduced accuracy.  

 

I've never reamed a barrel.  I've never had it done by someone else.  I don't know anyone myself who has had a barrel a reamed barrel where that resulted in reduced accuracy. I do not claim to know with any sort of educated certainty WHY a reduction in accuracy might happen (though I have some good guesses).   HOWEVER, I do know people who have had gunsmiths identify poor factory reams, where re-reaming actually improved accuracy.  And it stands to reason that if it's possible to for a good re-ream to fix a poor factory ream, then it's possible for a poor re-ream to ruin a good factory ream.  If you have an accurate pistol re-reamed, it might come back less accurate than it went out.  This may be incredibly uncommon, but there IS some risk associated with a re-ream.  Whether or not that risk is worth being able to load to some arbitrary and unnecessary but preferred OAL is up to the gun owner.  

 

 

Damn it!  What this site is missing is the ability to rate comments.  This one is ️ ️ ️ ️ ️.  I can’t imagine doing anything as drastic as reaming out the chamber.  Loaded close to 1000 147gn Campro RNFP bullets at 1.14 only to find out after that even though they passed the plunk test, they did not pass the spin.  Back to the press with a quick adjustment to 1.11 and they were fine, took less than 40 minutes and they shoot accurately.  Great post and explanation @IDescribe

[CZ Kadet .22 for CZ Shadow 2]

13 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Wait so your DA pull is around 6-7#? If so, then I would definitely consider getting this kit. Using the 17# mainspring with the older Kadet Kit was an absolute pain (moreso installing and racking the slide than actually shooting it).

My DA is whatever the Shadow comes stock with.  I have not had any modifications done to it.  Seriously, installing and racking the slide is no different than installing or racking the 9mm slide, just as easy, simple and just as fast.  The Kadet slide  even has the exact same slide serrations cut into it front and rear just like the Shadow.  The Kadet came with two springs, plus I ordered a 13lb main spring because that’s what I was hearing from others (but that pertained to the Kadet 2 and older Kadet for the SP-01).  No one told me I needed to use these springs and seriously I thought they were replacement springs for the magazines, lol.  Nope, my Shadow is still in it’s stock unadulterated form and it’s conjoined with the Kadet for Shadow 2 Conversion kit like it’s made for it, oh wait....it is made for it.  I don’t think you’re going to be disappointed if you get one.  I for one am so glad my rep at Wolverine gave me the heads up about the conversion kit for the Shadow 2.  So worth the wait and it’s a bomber, heavy piece so retains the weight and feel of the Shadow 2.  The magazines are the only things made of plastic.  If you would like any additional pics of the slide, detailed photos etc.  Let me know.

[CZ Kadet .22 for CZ Shadow 2]

8 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

What weight mainspring did you use? One of the reasons I sold my Kadet Kit II for my 85C was having to constantly change out the hammer spring (with an unrealistic DA).

Whatever the Kadet came with.  I have no idea.  I didn’t have to make any changes to the Shadow in order for it to fire .22’s as well as it does 9mm.  Seriously, take off the 9mm slide, slide on the .22 slide, load up the mags. pop one in and start shooting.  I was worried about having to constantly change springs as well, but this is not the case.  CZ dialed in the Shadow 2 Kadet .22 specifically for the Shadow 2, unlike the original Kadet and Kadet 2 which covered a variety of CZ 75 designs and where some modifications to the Kadet were required.  This is not a one size fits all case, this thing fits, and this thing works.  Spare mags are pricy at nearly $100 Cdn.  It’s not an inexpensive alternative to a .22, but you still get to shoot your Shadow and in reality, the cost savings of shooting .22 for practice and plinking will add up over time.  Because everything is the same, with the exception of a reduced recoil; but same grip, same trigger, nearly identical weight (only a few ounces lighter), even fits whatever holster you’re using for a Shadow 2, it’s pretty much ideal for me. 

[CZ Kadet .22 for CZ Shadow 2]

Really happy with the way the adapter performed.  I’ve  shot a 9mm Sig 1911 with a .22 adapter and it was nothing to write home about, lots of misfeeds, but having said that my stock Sig 1911 .22 experiences lots of misfeeds as well,  one or two per magazine, for sure at least one; typical notorious finicky .22.  Converting the Shadow 2 to a .22 is effortless, pop out the slide release which is similar to the 9mm version, but it lacks the dimple found on the 9mm.  This is too bad, because that little dimple makes it easy to pop in a corner of one of the mags and then easily pop out the slide stop.  That’s about the only criticism I have for the adapter.  I ran through 100 rounds of CCI 40gn Standard Velocity .22 and 100 rounds of Federal Champion 40gn .22.  The gun hiccuped on two rounds of the CCI and ate up the Federal like it was half starved, no jams or misfeeds even under rapid fire conditions.  Normally when I shoot 9mm under practice conditions I limit myself to 150 rounds, but with the .22 I can now shoot 500 rounds for less than what 75 rounds of 9mm would have cost.  Clean up is different than the 9mm.  I couldn’t see a way to easily remove the barrel but a bore snake works really well.  Accuracy is good.  I also love the fact that it weighs about a pound more than my full size Sig 1911 .22. Despite the cost, I am really happy with this thing.  Looking forward to receiving the CZ factory optic ready Shadow 2 shortly as well.

 

 

[CZ Kadet .22 for CZ Shadow 2]

 

Just received the CZ Kadet. 22 conversion kit specifically made for the CZ Shadow 2.  Stay posted for live fire review.

 

 

 

[Shadow 2 owners do you shoot 147 during competitions?]

4 hours ago, Trinimon said:

Nice. Did you shoot these off a rest or just hand holding?

 

What app is that?

 

Thanks.

 

Thanks.  The chrono shot sequences were shot sitting at a table, with wrists supported on a rolled piece of carpet.  The first time I ever used the chronograph I was standing up and the first shot I took hit the rear sunscreen and split it in half down the middle.  Managed to repair it, but still...so i sit when chronographing.  The photos of the groupings were taken separately with the left over ammo from the chronoing loads. 7 yards away, standing, two handed.  The app I used for the chrono is the Caldwell chronograph app.  

[Shadow 2 owners do you shoot 147 during competitions?]

Test results from reloading of Vihtavuori N320 powder using 3 various loads and 147gn Campro RNFP bullets, COL 1.110.  Stock, unmodified CZ Shadow 2.  I am a VERY novice shooter and my CZ (my first handgun), barely has 2000 rounds through it.  Started shooting the CZ in Feb 2018, Black Badge March 2018, not sure why this is relevant, except maybe to say that a CZ Shadow 2 will make anyone shoot like a rock star....ok, maybe that’s a stretch, but I have shot a variety of pistols when I first picked up a handgun in Nov 2017, Sig Sauer P226; Kimber 1911, Walther and Glock; Sig P220 but NOTHING has compared to the Shadow 2, in fact I bought the Shadow untried, the reviews pretty much sold me.  Bottom line, yet again, I’m a mediocre NOVICE shooter.  Ok, here goes.

 

All targets shot from 7 yards

Weather conditions for those Type A - OCD shooters and reloaders....aren’t we all?

 

 

PF 126

 

 

 

PF 129

 

 

PF 130

 

I didn’t find any appreciable difference between the three loads in terms of recoil.  3.2gn feels like a .22 and these have only slightly more recoil.  Found the accuracy, for me to be pretty uniform.  Will try similar experiment with the VV N330 and VV N340 next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[which CZ for USPSA and IDPA (9mm)]

2 hours ago, kmanick said:

please do , that's exactly what I am planning the 6 moa venom. I hope they lighten it enough to make carry Optics down here.

If they don't I may have to pass on it   hopefully theylls sell just the slides so I can use the same lower all the time. (dreaming)

I’ll take meticulous measurements of everything when I get it assembled with the optic.  . Going to post my chrono and target results with my VV N320 powder and Campro 147 bullets on another thread.  Pretty happy with results.

[which CZ for USPSA and IDPA (9mm)]

On 5/11/2018 at 6:26 PM, kmanick said:

you've got an optics ready Shadow 2?

is this one of the new ones or did you have one milled?

pics please??

It’s one of the new factory ones.  It’s on order, should be arriving around July according to the dealer.  I’ve heard some rumours that the US  won’t be getting theirs until 2019.  I put an order in for the Shadow 2 specific Kadet .22 adapter in early February, which had not yet been released in Canada, but was told it would be available around middle 2018 in Canada.   I’m getting it delivered this coming week, so their delivery timelines seem to be close.  Getting the Vortex Venom 6.0MOA for the Optic at the same time.  When I have it in my hot little hands be sure I’ll post some pics and give it as good a review as I can.  I’m stoked.

[Powders for 9my 147gr coated]

I loaded up some test ammo using Campro 147 gn RNFP bullets, 3.2gn VV N320.  COL 1.091.  PF 124  Pretty much makes my Shadow 2 feel and sound like a .22.  Cases literally “tumble” out of the ejector, yet not one single stove pipe or jam and respectable groupings.  I loaded 600 rounds for practice and will up the powder to 3.3gn for comp to make Minor PF.  At 3.5gn I was at 139 PF and wanted to bring it down a tad from there.  I definitely prefer the N320 over the N340.  Next up is the elusive N330.  My COL is 1.091 as per bullet manufacturers recommendations, my Shadow 2 can take 1.177 according to the dummy fitting I did this morning, is there a significant difference between a longer and a shorter COL?  I’m thinking longer must be faster and therefore more accurate?

[new Shadow 2 Optic Ready from factory]

Have one on order, possibly July.  Can’t wait, am loving my original Shadow 2.

[which CZ for USPSA and IDPA (9mm)]

On 5/12/2009 at 7:13 PM, TerryO said:

The Kadet will fit either one.

 

I own a Shadow 2 and an optics ready Shadow 2, getting my hands on the .22 Kadet was of major interest to me and so I asked this question of CZ and was told that the .22 Kadet for the SP-01 will NOT fit the Shadow 2, but there is now a .22 Kadet specifically for the Shadow  2, new for 2018.  Which I’ll be receiving in a few days and will post some kind of review.

[Shadow 2 owners do you shoot 147 during competitions?]

20 hours ago, Chili said:

 

 

Everyone I know shooting Campro 147's with VV powder is using N320.  3.5 gn of N320 @ 1.110 gave me a steady 130-132 PF in a pair of Shadow 2's as well as my original Shadow.

Great recipe!  I seriously thought I was shooting my .22 Sig 1911.  It sure sounded like it as well.  Pfft, Pfft, Pftt.   Groupings a lot tighter with the N320 than with the N340, less felt recoil and gun cycled beautifully.  I think I found a winner.  Chrono’d at 948.   Thanks Chili!

[Shadow 2 owners do you shoot 147 during competitions?]

1 hour ago, jmaples71 said:

 

VVN320 is some awesome stuff. I'd use it exclusively if it weren't so expensive. It works great for suppressed loads - single based, fast burning powders are noticeably quieter.

So I’m hearing!  Might bite the bullet and buy the bigger container of N320 and keep those bullets for competition use only.  

[Shadow 2 owners do you shoot 147 during competitions?]

13 hours ago, race1911 said:

you should try VVN320 and reload to about 130-132 PF

Thank you!  Will try that.