emjbe
-
Posts
159 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by emjbe
-
-
On 10/10/2018 at 8:22 PM, jon49erfan said:
Find a used Steiner P4Xi.
Jon49erfan got it right if you go with a low power variable. The Steiner P4xi is as fast as a red dot and can give you magnification. There’s one on eBay now for $500 including the mount.
I talked to several people who use the Steiner to replace $1000 optics.
I’ve only been shooting 3 gun for two years but I’d sell my Primary arms 1-6 and strike eagle 1-6 in a heartbeat if you are interested. I don’t plan to part with my p4xi.
-
Look so like a great gun.
Choose your optic based on the division you plan to shoot. If tactical then find a used 1-4x or 1-6x scope. Any red dot or irons for limited.
-
On 8/2/2018 at 2:58 PM, rondog said:
Jawanna post or attach the list here for us lazy folks.
Here's my list:
3gun gear checklist
- Eyes - dark and clear lenses
- Ears
- Inner belt
-
Belt
- Pistol mag pouches
- Shotshell holders
- Rifle mag pouch
- Holster
- Shooting bag
- Pistol
- Pistol mags
- Pistol ammo
- Rifle in case
- Rifle mags
- Rifle ammo
- Shotgun in case
- Shotgun ammo
- Dump pouch
- Water
- Cart
- Cash
- Hats
- gloves
-
I did/do that a lot but slowly getting better. I can go back through my log book and I see many times where I completely blew past a target or array. What helped me the most was two things: drawing the stage before I shot it and then visualizing AFTER the match. I work with the assumption that a good stage plan well executed is better than a great/efficient/fast stage plan that I screw up.
Drawing the stage: Before the stage I would walk the stage and look at targets and draw them on paper (either a printed stage diagram if the match published them or in my shooting log). I picked the EASIEST (not fastest) route through the stage and during the walk through I visualized how each target would look as I came up to it and I pictured my sight/reticle on the target in my mind. Then I would walk away from the stage and think the entire thing through with my eyes closed. If I couldn't picture it in my mind I'd watch another shooter and figure it out. (this didn't work when I was early in the shooting order). I also figure out the pattern of how many targets to engage through each port and I would draw that in my diagram. When I see all the ports and numbers on paper, it's easier to remember (I'm a visual learner and it's easier for me to remember if I've seen it). Before I shoot a complicated stage I want to be able to close my eyes and see the sight/reticle on every target in the stage.
Visualizing after match: What helped the most is that when I get home, I refer back to the stage diagram and re-visualize the stage many times (2-20 or more). If it was an easy stage, I might go over it 2-3 times. There was a really complicated stage last month that I've replayed probably 30-40 times since then. Basically it is like practicing the walk-through, but I do it at home after the match. I often dry fire every stage from the most recent match in my garage/back yard when I'm practicing - this helps me identify places where I was slow and that leads me to the things I need to practice. This gets my mind accustomed to learning how to remember transitions and sight pictures and I've found over time that it's easier for me to learn stages and make a plan. I found that a stage videos help me with the parts I forget and watching posts from others who shot the same match is good also. After several matches of doing this, I found I was able to remember stages better. Also, as I re-run each stage in my mind I think of better/faster ways to shoot it both in terms of technique (leaving positions sooner/being ready to shoot earlier) and in terms of different order. For example in the last match I ran the stage like @jh3gun (below ... but I was much slower) but @kitzmiller_3gun pulled the rifle from the trunk first and then got ammo and shot left to right. I've gone through both methods now about 10 times in my head trying to figure it out. I'll replay every stage 5-10 more times this week as I get ready for the 3gun match Sat. I'm not sure if this is exactly what Lanny Bassham had in mind when he talks about visualizing, but it has helped me a LOT with stage planning and execution.
-
On 8/6/2018 at 5:07 AM, Hi-Power Jack said:
Any update ? How did the Hyperfire compare to the JP ?
If you are looking for a comparison, I have an older (circa 2008) JP trigger with a speed hammer on a 308 and I use the Hiperfire ECLiple on a 3gun rifle.
I like them equally well. If not for the different width of the shoe, I'd have a hard time distinguishing between the two. No pre-travel, both break very clean and crisp, no over-travel, short reset on both of them.
for me the installation difference would come down to adjustments vs simplicity. The JP has more screw adjustments to get right, the ECL has the extra springs on the hammer. either of these can be done by anyone who wants to learn.
There are some mechanical differences in lock time and hammer force. If those things matter to you then use that as a decision point. I've never had either fail to ignite any primer, but in the 308 I've only ever used match or good hunting ammo. I've used tula/wolf with the ECL and haven't had any trigger related/ignition problems.
-
On 8/20/2018 at 5:26 PM, L3324temp said:
I bought this scope at a major discount. Is is nearly perfect except for brightness. I would happily pay 2x MSRP if they could double the brightness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree - great 3gun scope. Perfect if it had a daylight bright dot right in the middle (@Leupold - if you are listening I'd prefer just the center dot not the entire horseshoe).
Is that discount still available somewhere? I've seriously been considering getting a 2nd VX6
-
On 7/21/2018 at 7:31 PM, 2alphas said:
VooDoo is good kit.
VST2018 will get you a 25% discount online
Used mine for the first time 2 weeks ago. Definitely big enough to hold everything I needed for 4 stages and more. Heavy walking between stages but nice.
-
On 8/2/2018 at 8:24 PM, Garmil said:
Fairly tight eyebox is the main downside
This post is worth the time to explain the NX8 vs ATACR:
-
On 8/10/2018 at 8:23 AM, NoKimberDave said:
Well, honestly I like them about equally. The glass is very good on both, although the Steiner might have a very slight edge. I believe its german schott glass. But very bright image in both. On 1x eye box feels similar (which is where both scopes live 90% of the time). The vortex gets a little tighter at high mag, but it has 2X more power. Both have a daylight bright dot. I like both reticles, as I have come to detest busy, clunky reticles.
But I do slightly prefer the simple Steiner BDC reticle. If Steiner was to make an 1-6x24 just like the Px4i but with 2 more power I would buy that to replace the Vortex. But not sure I would gain anything as the Vortex is very very nice.
The Steiner feels a lot lighter, if that is a concern. The Vortex is a tank. I got the steiner with aluminum throw lever for 459$ which is sweet.
Hard to give a direct answer as to which I would take because they are both perfect for the rifles they are on. Hard to go wrong with either.
+1 - my Steiner is on the 14.5" light rifle and it fits the function perfectly - I don't think I'd put the vortex on that gun.
My VX-6 is also on a 14.5 rifle and it works great - this is my go-to rifle and can do anything.
Vortex is on the heavier 18" rifle - slightly better at long range and glass fits the function of that rifle
To add one thought on this comparison - In my opinion the C-More would be better glass and less weight than the PST if you can get the discount so they are about the same price. Check the reticle though ... that TJ reticle is great for 55g 3100fps, but the numbers on strelok weren't at all close for a 69g-77g match load @2500-2600fps.
-
On 8/10/2018 at 4:53 AM, 12glocks said:
I would take a close look at your drops on Strelok for whatever you buy. I think the JM reticle works well with a really fast load like MK 262 Mod 1. I have the MOA reticle on my Razor and it works well with a traditional match load like a 75/77 at 2550-2650. In the southeast we routinely shoot out beyond 300, out to 4-500 with regularity, and I would never consider 4x, not when there are such awesome 1-6x optics out there, unless weight was a MAJOR consideration (like for a run and gun).
+1 for the advice on using Strelok. Put in your load and see exactly what it will look like on any reticle. Your 75/77 load must be similar to mine - that VMR-MOA reticle was very close, but I had to change my zero to get it right on. My Vortex is zeroed at 150 yards which puts me within 2" from 10 yards to 200 yards. After that the hashes line up within 15 yards of 300/400/500.
For me the 1-4x is more about the size of the target and the contrast. I found 1-4x to be fine even to 545 yards when it was a black target with a white backer. when the target didn't contrast with the background it was harder to see on 4x.
-
I have the Vortex 1-6x ii-e (VMR2-MOA), the Leupold VX-6HD Multigun (CM-R2), and the Steiner Px4i. Here's my thoughts after using all of them in our local multigun and black rifle matches:
VX-6: Had this one the longest. So far neither the Vortex or the Steiner has been better.
Bad - It has only 2 faults:
- not daylight bright dot
- built-in throw lever.
I lost two of the standard throw levers on that scope ... and they were torqued on. We use dump barrels in matches and I saw the second lever in my go-pro video on the ground the week before SMM3G. It hit the side of the barrel and came off. I bought a switchview and solved that problem. I will say that you could go without a level like some of the USAMU team and be just fine - the zoom knob is smooth on that scope. Not really a negative vs the others because you'll still pay more for a throw lever.
CMR2 is not Daylight bright ... so I just leave it turned off when shooting. I did use it one time when we had an overcast day and it was nice. I asked one of the national champions here that is sponsored by Leupold about this - he was using an older VX-6. He said he never found illumination to help beyond 50 yards and the more I have used a dot, I agree. After turning on the dot on the vortex to full power and trying to shoot a 6" plate at 380 yards and not being able to see the target through the red dot, I realize he was right. The dot is nice in close range blasting, but not a necessity.
If Leupold were to offer a daylight bright reticle for this scope, it would be the perfect 3gun scope. I'd probably only use illumination on close blaster stages, but it would be nice to have.
Good
- Weight - best by far in this class
- Eyebox - best by far ... it's noticeably better than the Vortex. I have more motion side-to-side and can get closer to the scope without a tunnel vision
- Turrets - I like being able to use these. I can change zero for my two loads and they lock in place
- Reticle - this is the ideal 3gun reticle. It matches my long distance ammo nearly perfectly and I REALLY like the numbers next to the hash showing distance. The circle makes it easy to see paper and close-in targets - not as well as a red dot, but still pretty good.
- Auto-off time/auto-on motion reticle illumination ... even though I don't use the illumination, I turn it on before storing it just in case I need it at night. Every scope and red dot should have this feature.
Vortex
Love this scope also ... just the standard 3 things that you already know as negative: weight, weight, and weight.
I bought this because every forum and review said it had the biggest eye box, but that isn't the case for me. It's big enough for 3 gun - I've shot this in 3 multigun and 2 black rifle matches and haven't had any problem finding the targets due to eye box blacking out on me.
Red Dot is very nice - makes it easier to call your shots on close paper when you are going fast.
I got the VMR2-MOA only because the reticle matched nearly perfect with my loads - the first hash is 310, 2nd is 400, 3rd is 495 ... so 300, 400, 500 easy.
In the match yesterday I actually forgot to turn the dot on for the stages with long range targets and didn't feel like it was slower. In fact, one of the stages had 9 IPSC paper and it was easy to call shots ... the red dot would have helped but it didn't slow me down.
Steiner
Great glass - almost as good as the two above. Price is the best reason for this scope - low enough price and good enough glass. It has daylight bright dot. The reticle is great although doesn't match my long distance loads perfectly, it's close enough to get on target. Weight is good enough also.
I used this for a 3gun and a black rifle late last year. It was fine on the 3gun stages out to 300-400 yards with bigger targets. The black rifle match had a dark blue painted target in front of some green bushes and I just couldn't pick out the steel at 4x. It worked great for the black silhouettes and plates at about 200 yards.
Someone else mentioned the c-more scope with the discount code. That's probably the best deal I've seen. I haven't shot the scope in a match, but I spent some time dry-firing it. The guy who showed it to me unapologetically calls himself a "glass snob" and uses Swaros and every other good scope you can imagine. He told me the C-More glass is as good as Swaro. If the TJ reticle worked better with my load I would have bought that instead of the vortex and saved $500. If you run a 55g bullet it's a very good option for the price. I'd still like to get one of these ... maybe some day.
If I had to go with 1 scope, it would be the VX-6. Eyebox is the single most important factor for me and that one wins. weight is my second criteria and it wins there. If there were a daylight bright dot in the middle of that CMR2 reticle, it would be perfect for 3gun.
-
I was at a range yesterday with steel at 200 and 300 yards and had time for some testing of two 9mm loads.
From a JP barrel my hand loads (Berrys 124g target hollow point over TAC) made a 6" group at 200 yards and was hitting 300 yards about 50% of the time.
I switched to some white box federal and couldn't hit the target at all - with the same holds the factory ammo was falling at about 150 yards. We figured out the hold to get on target with elevation, but the splash was about 1-12 feet to either side of the target.
So ... it appears that 9mm load accuracy varies much more than I've seen for rifle ammo.
-
Just came across this PCC load development document from JP
https://jprifles.com/document_pdfs/PCC Load Development Article.pdf
It says they were getting about 3MOA in past testing but didn't do any specific accuracy testing.
-
One other thought- which grip do you use? In your original post you said
On 6/4/2018 at 2:38 AM, 1911vm said:. His arm is so bent he does not have a proper grip.
The BCM grip with a step angle reduces the amount of bend needed in his wrist so that night help a little also.
-
4 hours ago, 1911vm said:
If he starts actually shooting. I need to figure out how to get to 17.5 almost 18 LOP
Here's a detail of where my LOP is at with the A5 and EMOD stock and a Timney Calvin trigger pushed forward pretty far. This is measured with the tape measure level. The stock has a taper and if I measure to the top of the butt pad it adds about ¼".
I don't know of any good options to add another 3" except maybe some custom/really thick butt pad. The EMOD is the longest adjustable stock I know of.
Maybe one of the highly adjustable stocks can go longer - the odin works Zulu or the Tacmod stock. If you could find a long buffer tube that's the same diameter used by either of those stocks you might be able to get to 18" and end up with a nice setup. Since both of those stocks use a round buffer tube you could potentially even make a longer buffer tube and get the exact length you want and still end up with some adjustment.
-
19 hours ago, 1911vm said:
Actually 15.75 correct
Sorry about that...I was measuring buffer tube length instead of LOP.
I'M at 15" LOP with my trigger that is forward a little more than Millspec
-
On 6/7/2018 at 1:44 AM, 1911vm said:
Please let me know what the length is. Thank you very much.
-
On 6/7/2018 at 1:44 AM, 1911vm said:
Please let me know what the length is. Thank you very much.
Forgot to add - the A5 buffer tube by itself without a stock is 7.5" from the back of the tube to the receiver.
By comparison, my magpul rifle length stock is about 10.5", so the VLTOR A5 with the EMOD gives me 1.75" more LOP than a rifle length stock.
I took some photos to upload but they are too big ... if I can resize them I'll upload for you so you can see the measurements.
-
On 6/7/2018 at 1:44 AM, 1911vm said:
Please let me know what the length is. Thank you very much.
The VLTOR A5 buffer tube with the VLTOR EMOD stock is 12.25" from the back of the stock to the receiver with the stock fully extended.
-
On 6/4/2018 at 8:08 PM, Southpaw said:
You might've missed the earlier post about the Vltor A5 receiver extension if you're not familiar with them, but they're longer than a normal carbine buffer tube, 7 positions instead of 6. You need to use their buffer with it too that's longer than a normal carbine buffer. The A5 tube plus whatever carbine stock offers the longest LOP (not sure on this one) might work.
My vltor a5 with the long vltor emod stock has longer LOP than my rifle length stocks. If you think that might work for you let me know and I can measure it.
-
I have 6 Magpul 21s - all have been flawless in my Glock 19 G4 and nearly flawless in my PCC.
4 of them are about 2 years old. 2 of them about a year old. I got 6 so that I don't have to load mags between stages at the monthly matches.
They've been in the dirt every month and all have hit the garage floor at least 100 times each during dry fire.
In the PCC I've had 2 problems with these mags caused by dirt in the mags - after I cleaned the mags, they worked fine in the PCC.
They have been dirtier in the Glock and didn't have any feed issues.
-
There's a really good documentary about JM Browning on youtube - my favorite part is at 13:00 when he goes into a gun shop and sees a gun he invented and the owner doesn't believe him.
-
How often do you clean the dies?
I've only been reloading about 2 years (approx 10k 223 and 4k 9mm) and haven't noticed them being dirty ... but I haven't really looked either.
-
More of a mormon tribute than a joke, but here you go:
(full disclosure, I shoot a Glock ... but I still like the story)
"In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John’s design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
And as the ages passed, men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clarity of mind being clouded by lust.
The artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo the artisans did charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it. And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord, for they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the Lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
And being a deceitful spirit the Devil did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "Dingus” to make them appear safe.
But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken.
Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol the Devil didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911’s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended."
Bullet choice for 200-500yd stages
in Rifle - Technical
Posted
I get better results with the hornady 55g SP. I found it shoots good enough for just about any 3gun target in terms of accuracy. It’s #2266 from hornady and sometimes costs less than fmj.
You Could also look at the 62g hornady. Several people here are using that bullet since it’s cheap like the 55g fmj but more accurate.