MaraW

There is no argument that can justify a current RO not knowing that this was an illegal ready condition. I think this horse is dead now, you can stop beating it. We all know you are better and smarter than everyone else (except maybe Sarge). Give it a rest already Hey Mara....you keep bringing it up. I've brought this up exactly twice. Once in my first post in this thread, the other in response to Nik... As for your sacastic overtones towards me, whom I am quite sure that you do not know me personally or professionally, just goes to prove exactly what kind of person you really are. Stop being so high and mighty and get your head right before someone gets your head right for you. And your opinion is worth to me exactly what I paid for it...nothing. Have good night. I don't consider myself high and mighty at all. I was referring to the constant beating on the RO's that's been going on here for the last 2 pages, to the point of calling them stupid. Whatever mistakes were made, a call was made by the RM and it's that call and the rules involved that was being discussed here until it turned into an RO bashing. You have a good night, too.

There is no argument that can justify a current RO not knowing that this was an illegal ready condition. I think this horse is dead now, you can stop beating it. We all know you are better and smarter than everyone else (except maybe Sarge). Give it a rest already

Let's get the situation straight first. This was on staff day, and the entire (RO) squad shot the COF with the slide locked back. Jesus! Where did you dig up the staff for this match? An RO that thought that was a legal ready condition should have had his card pulled right there on the spot! Really? An RO that made a mistake should have his card pulled on the spot? NOPE. Hell, I have made mistakes ROing. But those were much more complicated calls than starting a whole squad of shooters with an open slide. That was worse than a mistake in my opinion. People make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from them and become better RO's. Absolutely agree! And making mistakes as an RO does make you a better shooter I am sure that everybody on here knew the rule book inside and out from day one out of their level 1 class and has never made a mistake or a bad call. Not even close! We all make mistakes There were several new RO's working this match and I hope they gained a lot of experience and will continue to help and volunteer at other matches. New RO's are what keeps the rest of us from getting burned out. BUT, if there were several new RO's working the match the RM and MD should have been assigning them to work with more seasoned CRO's. Good leadership never puts a new RO on the tough stages of a level II match all by themselves. They are setting them up for failure by doing so. ALL of the staff at this match was extremely professional and did a great job. Really? It looks like at least some of them did not do such a great job if they ran a squad through a stage with such an obvious mistake happening. Newer RO's worked with more experienced RO's and CRO's and will be better for it. So it sounds like this was staff day. Leadership must make sure there is experienced staff on every staff squad if at all possible. Think about it. They had new RO's working with experienced staff to avoid mistakes like this but they turned a squad of new RO's loose to shoot the match? We should thank everyone that puts in so much time and effort and not bash them if they aren't perfect all the time. Couldn't agree more! I know of one sponsored group of shooters that seems to forget that small touch of class every time I run them through a squad at a major. It really bothers me to put in so much work so others can play and then not take 5 seconds to thank me and my crew. I am with you 100% on this one. Everybody has to start somewhere. Agreed again. But probably not a level II match unless they have proven they are up to the task. When I shoot a major, I will be honest, I am not very tolerant of shitty range commands or other bad habits some RO's have. I also learn from encountering that. I have learned just as much from bad RO's as I have from great RM's! As for pulling an RO's card for making a mistake? Probably not. But anyone who thinks you can start a stage with a gun in a made up ready condition...... Any newer or less experienced RO's WERE assigned to stages with experienced RO's and CRO's during the main match. Only 3 shooters on that squad had to reshoot, maybe the more experienced RO's on that squad were getting their gear together, cleaning mags, etc. You know, trying to shoot the match and maybe didn't catch right what was going on right away. Obviously it was caught.Several of those guys have been RO's at local matches for over a year without issue. Mistakes can happen at any level match. That doesn't make those guys any less qualified than anyone else, it just means they need experience. Saying they didn't "do such a great job" because 3 guys started wrong and had to reshoot when they had no other issues over a full four day level 3 match is ridiculous. So you've made mistakes, and that's ok, but someone else's mistake was too dumb for you, or wasn't a complicated enough issue? Nice. I guess you were somehow involved with this match? I get that your feelings are hurt if that's the case. And yes, I will say it for the last time, Starting with the slide locked back was very dumb! It might have even crossed into the realm of stupidity. I was not involved in this match, other than to shoot it. My feelings aren't hurt. I just have very little patience for condescending attitudes, especially towards volunteers. This is supposed to be a rule discussion, not a "I'm smarter than that guy" discussion.

Let's get the situation straight first. This was on staff day, and the entire (RO) squad shot the COF with the slide locked back. Jesus! Where did you dig up the staff for this match? An RO that thought that was a legal ready condition should have had his card pulled right there on the spot! Really? An RO that made a mistake should have his card pulled on the spot? NOPE. Hell, I have made mistakes ROing. But those were much more complicated calls than starting a whole squad of shooters with an open slide. That was worse than a mistake in my opinion. People make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from them and become better RO's. Absolutely agree! And making mistakes as an RO does make you a better shooter I am sure that everybody on here knew the rule book inside and out from day one out of their level 1 class and has never made a mistake or a bad call. Not even close! We all make mistakes There were several new RO's working this match and I hope they gained a lot of experience and will continue to help and volunteer at other matches. New RO's are what keeps the rest of us from getting burned out. BUT, if there were several new RO's working the match the RM and MD should have been assigning them to work with more seasoned CRO's. Good leadership never puts a new RO on the tough stages of a level II match all by themselves. They are setting them up for failure by doing so. ALL of the staff at this match was extremely professional and did a great job. Really? It looks like at least some of them did not do such a great job if they ran a squad through a stage with such an obvious mistake happening. Newer RO's worked with more experienced RO's and CRO's and will be better for it. So it sounds like this was staff day. Leadership must make sure there is experienced staff on every staff squad if at all possible. Think about it. They had new RO's working with experienced staff to avoid mistakes like this but they turned a squad of new RO's loose to shoot the match? We should thank everyone that puts in so much time and effort and not bash them if they aren't perfect all the time. Couldn't agree more! I know of one sponsored group of shooters that seems to forget that small touch of class every time I run them through a squad at a major. It really bothers me to put in so much work so others can play and then not take 5 seconds to thank me and my crew. I am with you 100% on this one. Everybody has to start somewhere. Agreed again. But probably not a level II match unless they have proven they are up to the task. When I shoot a major, I will be honest, I am not very tolerant of shitty range commands or other bad habits some RO's have. I also learn from encountering that. I have learned just as much from bad RO's as I have from great RM's! As for pulling an RO's card for making a mistake? Probably not. But anyone who thinks you can start a stage with a gun in a made up ready condition...... Any newer or less experienced RO's WERE assigned to stages with experienced RO's and CRO's during the main match. Only 3 shooters on that squad had to reshoot, maybe the more experienced RO's on that squad were getting their gear together, cleaning mags, etc. You know, trying to shoot the match and maybe didn't catch right what was going on right away. Obviously it was caught. Several of those guys have been RO's at local matches for over a year without issue. Mistakes can happen at any level match. That doesn't make those guys any less qualified than anyone else, it just means they need experience. Saying they didn't "do such a great job" because 3 guys started wrong and had to reshoot when they had no other issues over a full four day level 3 match is ridiculous. So you've made mistakes, and that's ok, but someone else's mistake was too dumb for you, or wasn't a complicated enough issue? Nice.

You should take the class. Don't let the couple people here that make a hobby out of pointing out mistakes after the fact discourage you. I posted earlier that there were some new RO's working the match. They did great and I'm sure learned a lot and will be even better next time. All of the staff was excellent and the vast majority of us appreciate their hard work so we can have good matches to shoot. Nobody on here is perfect or has all the right answers, although some would like you to think so. Some of the attitudes of a (very) few people on here are probably representative of their character in general. It's just like any other sport, group, etc....there are a$$ holes everywhere. Luckily they're the minority in USPSA.

I never said one way or the other what I thought. It just seemed that from the differing of opinions on here that it wasn't that clear cut. In the space of 2 sentences you just implied you think this IS a black and white issue, but then said the rule book doesn't give guidance on which way to rule. I think you made my point for me, although if you read my post, that is the least important point I was making. The important thing IMO is that RM's make calls with the by the book when they can, but if it ISN'T that clear that they put some thought and consideration into it.

Sorry, this whole sorry tale sounds like a BS rationalization for giving a do-over to an RO. He was given the correct range commands, the start signal was given, and he shot the course of fire. The moment the start signal was given while he had 11 rounds in the magazine, he was breaking the rules. No amount of range lawyering can change that fact. As match officials, we police our own and so every call we make should be above board and whiter-than-white. This kind of thing is very disappointing and unprofessional IMHO. It seems obvious from the discussion going on here that making the right call was not that black and white. Not every scenario is exactly addressed by the rule book. Work enough matches and you will see some weird ones. Not everybody is going to be happy with 100% of the calls 100% of the time. What IS obvious is that the RM took the time to carefully consider the situation, discuss it with other RM's and make a well thought out decision. This is what should happen. I hope that you get the same consideration from RO's, CRO's and especially RM's at every match you shoot. I don't believe for a second that this decision had anything to do with the fact that this involved an RO squad. Calling into question the honesty and integrity of the people involved because you don't agree with the call that was made has nothing to do with a "rules discussion" and is simply in bad taste.

Let's get the situation straight first. This was on staff day, and the entire (RO) squad shot the COF with the slide locked back. Jesus! Where did you dig up the staff for this match? An RO that thought that was a legal ready condition should have had his card pulled right there on the spot! Really? An RO that made a mistake should have his card pulled on the spot? People make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from them and become better RO's. I am sure that everybody on here knew the rule book inside and out from day one out of their level 1 class and has never made a mistake or a bad call. If that was the case this forum would be a ghost town and there wouldn't be much to discuss There were several new RO's working this match and I hope they gained a lot of experience and will continue to help and volunteer at other matches. ALL of the staff at this match was extremely professional and did a great job. Newer RO's worked with more experienced RO's and CRO's and will be better for it. We should thank everyone that puts in so much time and effort and not bash them if they aren't perfect all the time. Everybody has to start somewhere.

What Bill said. "Don't be a dick". Rule #1 for RO's working a match with Troy.

Drop offset holsters are fine for all divisions (except single stack) as long as the heel of the butt of the gun is not below the top of the belt. (5.2.7.2). For single stack the entire front strap has to be at or above the top of the belt, except for ladies where it can be the same height as all other divisions. (Appendix D5 #20)

It's a speed shoot. See 1.2.2.3