MaraW

Match hotel will be the Days Inn in Thibodaux. The rate is $79 per night, double occupancy.

Do you know if this was even a certified RO? Most of the time I see or hear an "RO" making one of those calls that can't be backed up by the rule book (except the one in their head), they are not a certified RO, just someone running the timer at a local match.

Legal. As long as both grip panels meet the requirements of Appendix D4 21.4, it doesn't matter if they are different.

Also a worn out connector. Found that out first hand...

It's not the just the grip profile, it's the profile of the entire gun that can't be changed. For example if you smoothed the front strap of a glock where the finger grooves are the profile would be different, or changed the shape of the trigger guard. Think about it like this, if you lay the gun on a piece of paper and trace around it, then do whatever it is you want. If you retraced it would the line be the same? If not, you have changed the profile of the gun. Edit to add that the rule book does not define any specific profile, it's just the factory profile of each approved gun.

The fundamental problem is that the descriptions aren't consistent. There are those the specify "any order" and those that don't. If they don't say any order then the tendency in a case like this is to interpret it as being literal "shoot T1 then reload then shoot T3". As to T1-T3 meaning shoot them in T1,T2,T3 order, I've never seen or heard that interpretation before. But since it does seem to exist, that's even more of a reason to expand the stage descriptions. The ones that specify any order don't need to. I included the ruled pertaining to classifiers already. As far as I know there aren't any that mandate a specific order,(T1 then T2, then T3, etc.) I don't think they can per the rules. It's very specific under the freestyle rules what classifiers are allowed to require. The rulebook is there so that every single thing doesn't have to be written in to a stage description/briefing, although Troy already said he would work on cleaning them up some, that is very different from "expanding" them.

Under the freestyle rules there are specifics about classifiers. 1.1.5.2 and 1.1.5.3 only cover mandatory reloads, shooting position, stance, strong hand and weak hand (so these things can be specified). Otherwise freestyle rules still apply and targets in an array can be engaged in any order. Roscoe Rattle is basically telling you to perform a mandatory reload between arrays, in this case the arrays have only one target, but this is no different than any classifier that says engage T1-3, mandatory reload, engage T4-6. You can start on either array and shoot each in any order you want.

I was wrong about mag position in standard. Looks like they do have to be behind the hipbone. IPSC rule 5.2.4 says additional ammo can be carried in rear pockets, but it's not clear if they can be retrieved from there? I think they can, but that's really just a guess. USPSA's 5.2.4 is very specific. Ammo can be carried and retrieved from apparel pockets as long as the location of the pocket doesn't violate specific division requirements i.e. Production behind the hipbone, so front pocket retrieval would be a bump to open, but if shooting limited, L10 or open ammo from any pocket is fine. I'll have to watch the video again on a better screen.

He's shooting standard (limited) so no position requirement for mags like there is in production. I didn't see him pull one out of his pocket though, just put one in his front pocket when he was done, but it wouldn't matter in that division.

No idea why, I'd guess that's what the board decided when they came up with the selection process. DNROI is the team manager though.

Then how are there 26 male adult USA Open shooters (not juniors, senior or super senior)? They are not on the team. There are a bunch of people shooting as individuals that got in on whatever slots were left after the teams were filled.

Which stage? I don't remember one like that...

I really like my Trojan from Dawson. Good price and I haven't had any issues. All I have done is add the ambi safety.

If your gun 'broke' how would you be switching back to it? How would you explain that to the RM? How would you not get DQ'd under 10.6.1?"My buddy just found that spare part I needed, can I switch back now?" Probably like that, except the RM doesn't have to allow it.

I thought it was a good mix. There were big stages, but over all 27 stages the average round count was 23 rounds per stage. Almost 1/3 of the long courses were under 30 rounds. The speed shoots, short and medium courses made up about 37% of the match.

I don't think you have to remove them. People had them at production nats last year, but at least one guy went to open when he stuck a mag on there at ULSC, so just be careful if that's a habit of yours.

I had my holster measured at 2012 nats, it was fine. Bladetech DOH

It says in *any* string. That doesn't mean those actions have to happen in separate strings. If the string specifies one shot per, reload, then one shot per shooting more than one at a time, and fewer on the other(s) at some point in that string is exactly what stacking is. If you shoot more than specified number on one and the *correct* number on the others, then you will have extra shot penalties (and maybe extra hits).Otherwise why not shoot 2 on half, reload and shoot 2 on the other half. You would have still reloaded after 6 shots, so you can't give procedurals for not following the stage description, but you would have saved a total of 6 transitions between targets. This is why stacking can also only be applied to Virginia Count and Fixed time stages But you are not shooting less or more on any target in that one string...shots prior to a reload and after does not constitute as two different strings...it's just a procedural penalty...which will negate any advantage gained by "stacking"...the procedural is for not shooting at each of the target...before and after the reload - 2 penalties...add up the scores and the 2 penalties will negates the advantage in time... I can see what you're saying, but I read "in any string" as during any string. Procedurals either way, but you still have to know what to call them on the scoresheet or you open the door for an arb

It says in *any* string. That doesn't mean those actions have to happen in separate strings. If the string specifies one shot per, reload, then one shot per shooting more than one at a time, and fewer on the other(s) at some point in that string is exactly what stacking is. If you shoot more than specified number on one and the *correct* number on the others, then you will have extra shot penalties (and maybe extra hits).Otherwise why not shoot 2 on half, reload and shoot 2 on the other half. You would have still reloaded after 6 shots, so you can't give procedurals for not following the stage description, but you would have saved a total of 6 transitions between targets. This is why stacking can also only be applied to Virginia Count and Fixed time stages

I haven't yet RO'd one where they were so close I couldn't see a transition from one to the other. It helps to watch from just to the side and a bit behind the right shoulder (or left for a lefty). Like with any call though, if you're not 100% sure! don't make it.

Shadowriders Melody Line example is that the shooter draws and fires 2 rounds at T1 then fires 1 round each at T2-T6, performs the mandatory reload and fires 1 round at T2-T6. Are you saying that you would impose one stacked-shot procedural for not shooting at T1 after the reload? 9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. Melody Line is one string, and Shadowriders hypothetical assumes the shooter fired 2 shots at each target. No target was insufficiently engaged in that single string. A couple of hypothetical examples might illustrate the point better. Example 1: Virginia count, 2 targets, 2 strings, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is for string 1, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, and for string 2, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. In string 1, shooter draws and shots T1 with 2 rounds and stops. In string 2, shooter draws and shoots T2 with 2 rounds and stops. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. Then 9.4.5.3 kicks in and the shooter gets a procedural for insufficient engagement of T2 in the first string, and a procedural for insufficient engagement of T1 in the second string. Example 2: Virginia count, 2 targets, 1 string, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. Shooter draws, engages T1 with 2 rounds, performs a reload, and engages T2 with 2 rounds. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. Its only one string, so the shooter did not shoot more than the required rounds on any target in that string or shoot any target with fewer shots than specified in that string. No stacked shot penalties apply. (This example is intended to reignite the debate about scoring the reload mistiming issue, just to show that stacked shot penalties dont apply). I was careful not to say that stacked shot penalties cant apply to a single stringI only said that 9.4.5.3 doesnt apply to Shadowriders Melody Line example. I havent tried to consider all possible instances where a stacked shot penalty might apply in a single string, and I dont have time to try right now. My intuition, however, is that there may not be any examples to find. Generally, miss and failure to shoot at penalties will apply to any target insufficiently engaged in that single string. So Id be interested to see any valid example you may find. I wasn't necessarily talking in specifics. I thought you were saying that stacking procedurals couldn't be given if there was *only* one string. Stacking on this stage would be if the shooter fires two rounds each at the first three targets, reloaded then fired two each at the last three targets. Another example is if he shot two at the first one, one on T2-T5 (6 rounds so far), doesn't fire at T6, then reloads 2 on T6, one on T2-T5 again and doesn't shoot T1. He has fired no extra shots, has no extra hits (but has avoided 2 transitions). If the stage says engage each target with one round each, reload and engage each with one round, then when he didn't shoot at T6 and fired 2 at T1, this is where the "fewer than required on one target and more than required on the other" comes into play. Stacking is assessed per target, so in this example it would be 2 procedurals. In Shadowriders example, I think it would be one procedural for stacking due to the 2 shots fired on one target before the reload and not shooting at that target after the reload, all the other targets were engaged with the specified number of rounds. (If I'm reading what he said correctly) I have to agree with austex but add that 9.4.5.3 cannot apply to CoF with on one string. Hypothetical: I'll use austex example 2 (Example 2: Virginia count, 2 targets, 1 string, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 and T2 with one round each.) Shooter draws fires 2 shots reloads and fires 2 shots. As the RO, how do you KNOW the shooter "stacked" his shots??? The shooter may be that bad and his second shot missed the other target and hits the same target he shot during the first shot...resulting in 2 hits on each target. What you don't know, you cannot assess a penalty for. You cannot assumed the shooter did something you are not sure about.[/ The way you tell is the same way you know someone didn't engage a target in an array on a normal course of fire. You can watch the shooter transition from one target to the next. 2 shots with no transition, a reload and two more shots with no transition should be fairly obvious. You don't need to be watching the targets to see what he is shooting at (or not) *sorry, the quote function hates me sometimes...

Shadowrider’s Melody Line example is that the shooter draws and fires 2 rounds at T1 then fires 1 round each at T2-T6, performs the mandatory reload and fires 1 round at T2-T6. Are you saying that you would impose one stacked-shot procedural for not shooting at T1 after the reload? 9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. Melody Line is one string, and Shadowrider’s hypothetical assumes the shooter fired 2 shots at each target. No target was insufficiently engaged in that single string. A couple of hypothetical examples might illustrate the point better. Example 1: Virginia count, 2 targets, 2 strings, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is for string 1, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, and for string 2, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. In string 1, shooter draws and shots T1 with 2 rounds and stops. In string 2, shooter draws and shoots T2 with 2 rounds and stops. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. Then 9.4.5.3 kicks in and the shooter gets a procedural for insufficient engagement of T2 in the first string, and a procedural for insufficient engagement of T1 in the second string. Example 2: Virginia count, 2 targets, 1 string, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. Shooter draws, engages T1 with 2 rounds, performs a reload, and engages T2 with 2 rounds. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. It’s only one string, so the shooter did not shoot more than the required rounds on any target in that string or shoot any target with fewer shots than specified in that string. No stacked shot penalties apply. (This example is intended to reignite the debate about scoring the reload mistiming issue, just to show that stacked shot penalties don’t apply). I was careful not to say that stacked shot penalties can’t apply to a single string—I only said that 9.4.5.3 doesn’t apply to Shadowrider’s Melody Line example. I haven’t tried to consider all possible instances where a stacked shot penalty might apply in a single string, and I don’t have time to try right now. My intuition, however, is that there may not be any examples to find. Generally, miss and failure to shoot at penalties will apply to any target insufficiently engaged in that single string. So I’d be interested to see any valid example you may find. I wasn't necessarily talking in specifics. I thought you were saying that stacking procedurals couldn't be given if there was *only* one string. Stacking on this stage would be if the shooter fires two rounds each at the first three targets, reloaded then fired two each at the last three targets. Another example is if he shot two at the first one, one on T2-T5 (6 rounds so far), doesn't fire at T6, then reloads 2 on T6, one on T2-T5 again and doesn't shoot T1. He has fired no extra shots, has no extra hits (but has avoided 2 transitions). If the stage says engage each target with one round each, reload and engage each with one round, then when he didn't shoot at T6 and fired 2 at T1, this is where the "fewer than required on one target and more than required on the other" comes into play. Stacking is assessed per target, so in this example it would be 2 procedurals. In Shadowriders example, I think it would be one procedural for stacking due to the 2 shots fired on one target before the reload and not shooting at that target after the reload, all the other targets were engaged with the specified number of rounds. (If I'm reading what he said correctly) I have to agree with austex but add that 9.4.5.3 cannot apply to CoF with on one string. Hypothetical: I'll use austex example 2 (Example 2: Virginia count, 2 targets, 1 string, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 and T2 with one round each.) Shooter draws fires 2 shots reloads and fires 2 shots. As the RO, how do you KNOW the shooter "stacked" his shots??? The shooter may be that bad and his second shot missed the other target and hits the same target he shot during the first shot...resulting in 2 hits on each target. What you don't know, you cannot assess a penalty for. You cannot assumed the shooter did something you are not sure about.[/ The way you tell is the same way you know someone didn't engage a target in an array on a normal course of fire. You can watch the shooter transition from one target to the next. 2 shots with no transition, a reload and two more shots with no transition should be fairly obvious. You don't need to be watching the targets to see what he is shooting at (or not)

Shadowrider’s Melody Line example is that the shooter draws and fires 2 rounds at T1 then fires 1 round each at T2-T6, performs the mandatory reload and fires 1 round at T2-T6. Are you saying that you would impose one stacked-shot procedural for not shooting at T1 after the reload? 9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. Melody Line is one string, and Shadowrider’s hypothetical assumes the shooter fired 2 shots at each target. No target was insufficiently engaged in that single string. A couple of hypothetical examples might illustrate the point better. Example 1: Virginia count, 2 targets, 2 strings, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is for string 1, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, and for string 2, draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. In string 1, shooter draws and shots T1 with 2 rounds and stops. In string 2, shooter draws and shoots T2 with 2 rounds and stops. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. Then 9.4.5.3 kicks in and the shooter gets a procedural for insufficient engagement of T2 in the first string, and a procedural for insufficient engagement of T1 in the second string. Example 2: Virginia count, 2 targets, 1 string, best 2 hits per target score. WSB is draw and engage T1 and T2 with one round each, perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 and T2 with one round each. Shooter draws, engages T1 with 2 rounds, performs a reload, and engages T2 with 2 rounds. Targets are scored, each has 2 hits. It’s only one string, so the shooter did not shoot more than the required rounds on any target in that string or shoot any target with fewer shots than specified in that string. No stacked shot penalties apply. (This example is intended to reignite the debate about scoring the reload mistiming issue, just to show that stacked shot penalties don’t apply). I was careful not to say that stacked shot penalties can’t apply to a single string—I only said that 9.4.5.3 doesn’t apply to Shadowrider’s Melody Line example. I haven’t tried to consider all possible instances where a stacked shot penalty might apply in a single string, and I don’t have time to try right now. My intuition, however, is that there may not be any examples to find. Generally, miss and failure to shoot at penalties will apply to any target insufficiently engaged in that single string. So I’d be interested to see any valid example you may find. I wasn't necessarily talking in specifics. I thought you were saying that stacking procedurals couldn't be given if there was *only* one string. Stacking on this stage would be if the shooter fires two rounds each at the first three targets, reloaded then fired two each at the last three targets. Another example is if he shot two at the first one, one on T2-T5 (6 rounds so far), doesn't fire at T6, then reloads 2 on T6, one on T2-T5 again and doesn't shoot T1. He has fired no extra shots, has no extra hits (but has avoided 2 transitions). If the stage says engage each target with one round each, reload and engage each with one round, then when he didn't shoot at T6 and fired 2 at T1, this is where the "fewer than required on one target and more than required on the other" comes into play. Stacking is assessed per target, so in this example it would be 2 procedurals. In Shadowriders example, I think it would be one procedural for stacking due to the 2 shots fired on one target before the reload and not shooting at that target after the reload, all the other targets were engaged with the specified number of rounds. (If I'm reading what he said correctly)

9.4.5.3 doesn't say there has to be more than one string. It says ANY string. This classifier is one string. Stacking penalties can be applied to any virginia count stage.

Brandon, if that's what happened that's not legal. Forbidden action can only be used now for safety issues, probably to keep it from it being used for "oops, I didn't think they would do that " situations on the part of the stage designer. I didn't realize this was a 2012 match. Old rule book, old FA rule...glad they changed it though.