AncientShooter

Don't think a mod is necessary - try this: Sorry guys! I should have reloaded the page first!

AMAZING to me one of these aftermarket gun accessory businesses hasn't come up with an aftermarket pre-welded lifter for the 930....seems like a cheap upgrade item someone could make some money with!

The weld up IS a simple job - except that you have to take the receiver apart to get it out - (not a big deal). A good 'smith will re blue it after grinding it down and fitting. You shouldn't need to send the gun out, IMO. Can't really speak to the 24" vs. the 22", except the 22 points really quick compared to a 32" clays gun. I did read somewhere that Miculek likes the 24" better, but he is so good I could never appreciate what he does in a gun. I also find the gun very light, until I load it and the side saddle, but then the weight is mostly between my hands and seems OK.

Many of the current generation of target guns already have the “lengthened” forcing cone area. We have a 525 Citori in the house (wife's gun) and I know it's forcing cones are already as long as then need to be. I am told that is true! I also know that many 'value' manufacturers avoid the step to save money. It is, however, simple to measure on any gun, and it clearly made a difference on the 930. My Browning clays gun had a 2.5" cone before; 5.75" now.

Be glad to......once I find my camera...(think the wife has it for a knitting project)...although this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112916 has a great shot on post # 5. (I followed that thread for my install!)

The really important thing is to be sure your gunsmith hones and then polishes the cone area after reaming. The smoother and shinier the better.

The following graphic explains it better than I can, but it is the area immediately in front of the chamber where the load is compressed to the bore diameter. Generally, the longer this area, the tighter the pattern with fewer fliers. I know if you Google "lengthening the forcing cone", you'll get more detailed descriptions. My 'smith has done it a lot and my pattern tests showed a positive result on the 930. My O/U is being done now. http://www.google.co...Q9QEwBg&dur=778 I would add that much of what I have read suggests that a slower compression, (Longer forcing cone), results in less deformity to fewer pellets and truer flight with tighter patterns.

My 930 JM PRO has had some work recently: Lifter welded... Forcing cone lengthened..... 3mm x 5" fiber optic front sight.... 2mm brass mid vent ball mounted on front receiver hole.... 8 shot 3gun works side saddle.... barrel clamp rail with sling QD.... Noveske flush fit sling QD on stock.... trigger polish job.... mag follower face painted neon orange.....

As regards the rear sight issue.....I have a 3mm x 5" fiber optic front sight that glows like a freakin laser when you are looking right in the end - something I felt my cross dominant eyes needed and I have been pleased with - same set up I use for sporting clays. I installed a 2mm brass ball (mid barrel) bead in the forward most of the four sight mount holes on the 930 today after polishing, filing a flat on the top and lacquering the ball. i wanted a quick index for the vent rib that I would find before I got down onto the cheek weld, and lock me in from side to side without having to check. I like this VERY much. I don't even notice it unless I look, but see it on the periphery and adjust as I settle in without thinking. Increases my confidence. $8 sight and if you don't like it, easy to reverse. Just saying....

Just got my JM Pro back from my 'smith. He did an admirable job welding the lifter and it does - as many of you said - make a remarkable difference. There is no hesitance when reloading - a smoother entry for the reloads and I don't even consider I might get bitten - HUGE improvement, (Are you listening Mossberg?) The other day, my gunsmith called and said it was done, but before I pick it up, he thought I should consider lengthening the forcing cone. We talked a bit and I do trust this kid, so I let him do it. I had taken some serious pattern shots before hand and went right to the range today to duplicate those pattern shots. Very nice improvement on the 930. Hardly a scientific study but the patterns were tighter right up to 40 yards - even up to 00 buckshot. On 25 shots at various ranges with various shot sizes, virtually ALL showed tighter patterns and fewer fliers. I thought there was less felt recoil, but that seems subjective. I think my Browning O/U sporting clays gun is next! Any of you guys do this?

Thanks dukduk! The re-load strategy makes a number of things clearer. In one match I watched, all the shooters stopped after 8 stationary clays and loaded 4 slugs for 4 steel poppers, then ran more clays with a final reload of shot. The reloads seemed what that string was all about....now I KNOW it was. The rear sight is something I guess I'll have to think on...

Two more dumb questions..... I have my gunsmith welding my liftgate so it won't bite, or as my 'smith said, " I'll turn that fork into a spoon!" But he asked if I wanted a ghost ring rear sight where the four screws fill the holes used for a rail on other 930 models. (I have a JM Pro) I have never shot a ghostring before, and am used to a single bead on a scattergun, but the idea has merit. So, my first question is : Do you guys employ a rear sight to match your fiber optic on the JM Pro, and would a ghost ring be a good choice for 3 gun? Second question: What size shot do you guys use? Do you load up based on a look at the course of fire and mix in bird shot with buckshot/slugs depending on what you see beforehand? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I have only seen 2 matches and this issue actually never occurred to me! Thanks again for your patience. Rick

Yes it absolutely did make sense and I did about the same thing, with slightly different methodology, today. In fact, my adjustment made a VERY fast cycling gun even faster. I have a Carver race Glock that should be this fast. I shot a box of birdshot with it and the gun is fast enough that I need to transition better just to keep up! Nice to have a gun I can 'grow' into. Liked it before - LOVE it now! Thank you all for the advice - really helpful group on this forum - my respects to you all.

Makes sense..Thanks!

I have a new JM Pro with the 22" barrel and want to make it a easy to load as possible. Since I am new to this maybe you guys can help. Easing the port edges makes sense, but why weld the lifter? What does that give me? Also, any tips on how to adjust the setscrew behind the trigger? That totally confuses me since the gap to the trigger's back is so large. Thanks!

Awesome with a Laserlyte laser in the chamber of my Glock! The notion of double tapping my computer gives even more satisfaction.....plus you can work on accuracy too.....

All good ideas! I have taped my finger but I lose 'feel' for the trigger. Moleskin on the trigger guard is a hell of a good idea and I am going to try that. In fact I think with layering, I can contour the inside of the guard at an angle my index finger will like. I shot 5 mags today using the middle finger and I am getting used to the grip, but it takes some concentration to position the grip - getting it just right is not fast and involves being careful where the trigger finger is positioned. My Serpa holster actually positions my index finger best, but keeping the last two fingers down low is going to take some practice. I also seem to be griping harder with the last two fingers and my hand gets to cramping although I doubt that will be an issue on any course of fire I have seen. I also modified my stance to more of a sideways stance than a feet square Weaver type which seems to accommodate the 'cupped' support hand better. I think this may just be helping control the pistol at the bottom of the grip since I have extra fingers up high. I can't thank you all enough. For the first time in weeks I think I might be able to overcome this. My respects to you all for the help.

For steel challenge the goal is to hit the plate fast. Dead center or on the edge, they both count. So pin point accuracy is not needed. For most, me included, the larger the dot the faster it can be acquired. As your comments accurately infer, the larger the dot, the less precise the aiming point. So its a balancing act. Get the largest dot you can so you can find it fast but small enough that you can get your hits fast. For most competitors, that something in the 6 to 8 MOA range. A while back due to the bright Texas sun, I was having problems finding the dot. I went to a 12 MOA and that worked really well until I needed to shoot some distant targets. I could still hit them but the large dot covering too much of the target caused me to slow down in aiming. Bill Makes perfect sense! Thanks for tolerating what I am sure is common knowledge for you all.

Why does no one use the smaller 3 MOA mini RDS from Burris, etc:? I am new to pistol shooting, but the smaller dots suggest greater accuracy to me. WHat am I missing?

No. And BTW, I never broke my trigger finger and I had EXACTLY the same problem trying to learn to shoot my G35. It's because the bottom of the trigger guard is flattened off. On mine, I removed the trigger assembly and filed the inside of the trigger guard and smoothed it to accomodate my finger better..... but it still rubs on that same edge as yours does.It's one of multiple reasons I retired the glock to the safe. Yeah...I am just reluctant to modify the guard - what do you shoot now? Another epiphany today was that with the trigger finger pointing at the target along the slide bottom I seemed to have a steadier grip in the horizontal. My index finger seems to act like a rudder - squeezing the gun between thumb and index finger seemed to steady the G17 from wobbling on the aim. Also, by using the ring and little finger in the bottom two finger grooves firmly, I seemed to find the dot quicker and just a slight squeezing of those bottom fingers helped me adjust the vertical aim while eliminating flinch from fear of slide bite. I also find that a cupped support hand under the mag well felt more comfortable than a traditional 2 handed grip. I can't possibly be the first guy to try this, but I think in time this might allow me to shoot better.

I clearly need some advice. I am a 62 year old shooter with a cross dominance problem, limited competitive experience, and a strange "finger" issue trying to up my game. 10 years ago, I broke my trigger finger pretty bad skiing. Doc set it and it healed OK, but I wasn't shooting at the time. I have been back shooting for a few months hoping to find something my aging body can do to keep the juices flowing - my knees won't allow any more skiing. Anyhow, my trigger finger, at rest in a 'cupped' position, wants to lay over top of my middle two fingers, and when gripping the Glock, it comes down into the trigger area from above, crosses the trigger face diagonally, then wants to rub against the trigger guard pretty aggressively. After 4 or five magazines, the inside corner of my trigger finger is sore as hell. No question it is from the break, and as the Doc said, I was lucky that was all the limitation I had. It happens on every pistol I have shot, and most rifles, but the wider trigger guard is especially troublesome. I could alter the trigger guard. File some away, or try to heat up the plastic and twist it away, but that seems dicey to me at best and will alter my holster fit Today, completely on a lark, I shot two clips with MY MIDDLE finger - leaving my index, (trigger) finger in the 'ready' or 'safe' position above the trigger area, pointing at the target, just at the bottom of the slide....... It worked REALLY WELL! I shot better groups than I have in weeks, felt more comfortable, confident and simply could not believe I hadn't tried it before! I am inclined to continue firing this way and trying to compete this way, but wonder if I am missing something, or if it will be viewed negatively by Range Officers or Match Officials..... Am I nuts, or what?

+1 on panic purchases I am new to this forum and am here because shooting has been a part of my life forever and its time I do some competing, so I hoped to crank up my technical learning curve here. This thread struck my eye since I just finished outfitting my 3Gun kit with an extensively modified AR - (fist one I wore out!), so this new piston Ruger will serve me going forward, but the lure of this thread's subject drives me to respond. Allow me a sec to elaborate.... In my first incarnation I was a markets specialist focusing on manias, panics, crashes - the human side of capitalism. I have lectured and taught for a major investment house pretty widely on the subject for 30 years. Initial reactions to dramatic sea changes in any market causes the panic behaviors in the markets we are seeing recently and the smart move is to bet against the trend. It is so much a truism, that I preach it as dogma. It doesn't mean I have a political stance, although I do, and it doesn't mean the emotional reactions can't get worse than what we see now - it can. But history tells us that emotion passes, sanity returns and market forces drive the supply demand imbalances to self heal and level out at some point. At breakfast the other morning a friend told me he just bought 5 ARs - all the local dealer had left, and he got all of them from the guy BECAUSE HE PAID TWICE RETAIL!! He paid $15,000 before taxes for 5 ARs! (Two of which were $800 plastic receiver guns!) I told him if I were the dealer, I would have done that deal too and bet him a steak dinner he didn't make the "3 times my money" he suggested he would in one year. Its on my calendar, so we'll see. I can almost taste that filet now! Buy what you need. Don't turn this into another Mayan Apocalypse. I read the other day that more than 50,000 people , world wide, spent over $100,000 "prepping" for that.......I wonder what they say to themselves about that investment now...............

Spoke with him this AM. He remembered 20%, which is fine with me - 6,000 rounds for saving my brass...not a bad deal. I figure $.40-50/rd is close to 3K worth of ammo, and Obama may push that higher. Nice Christmas gift! He'll do a respectable job, and said I could pick my share out the finished batch. I knew that damn 55 gal drum would be worth something someday! Thanks again guys.

OK! I'll call him tomorrow. Thanks guys.

I have been saving 5.56 and .223 brass for about 5 years. I have a 55 gal plastic drum about 7/8 full...I am guessing about 30,000 rds worth........a reloader I know offered to reload them and give me 1/4 of them back in payment....... Is that a deal? sounds like it to me!