Ssanders224
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Posts posted by Ssanders224
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12 hours ago, regor said:
Have you tried going for some top rated (e.g. 33NRR) disposable foam earplugs? I have not found any in-ear ear pro that outperforms the Howard Light Max ear plugs and have converted some folks over to them from custom plugs. I run a Czechmate, so no popples, but it's still comfortable to shoot with just those in, though I prefer to double up to knock the edge off the concussion.
High quality foamies (32-33 NRR) inserted CORRECTLY are definitely the best option if you are only going to wear plugs. That's all I use when I'm shooting shotguns, and sometimes when I'm shooting standard pressure un-comp'd handguns for short periods of time. But... They aren't protecting you from damage from your Czechmate unfortunately.
let’s assume an Open gun report is 165 dB’s, (which is at the low end). With NRR 33 plugs, using a more conservative calculation, that means your ears are still being exposed to nearly 152dB’s. More than enough to do permanent damage immediately, much less over the course of repeated exposure.
Even if you don’t use OSHA’s recommended 50% correction factor, 33NRR still only provides 26dB of actual attenuation. So your ears are still being exposed to nearly 139dB. Again, more than enough to cause damage.
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24 minutes ago, waktasz said:
Double plug all the time. Even when I shoot minor. No reason not to. You're damaging your hearing otherwise.
This. Period.
Plugs, no matter the brand or make are not protecting you from an Open gun.
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31 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:
9 major Limited would be no more abusive than it is in an open gun.
It would also instantly kill 40 limited guns for anyone that wants to be competitive, way too many 20 to 24 round stages where not reloading would be a big advantage.
147gr 38SC for the win.
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124 JHP inventory update for anyone who needs some.
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6 minutes ago, outerlimits said:
not a gunsmith, but there's this thing called a breech face.
HONCHO BABY!
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Try a slide lock reload.
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Why does it have to be Speer?
.40 shouldn’t be headstamppicky.
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1 hour ago, Jeff226 said:
You are playing words games...saying they are allowed in the divsion is the same as saying they were put there.
If splitting them defacto kills the major division then that proves my point...people want limited minor. I don't need to restructure my argument at all. Some people are concerned that the people with .40 guns will have obsolete equipment if they change the division to minor. That is supposedly the only reason it hasn't been done already. I don't see any reason to obsolete anybody's gun and it makes more sense to have both until people no longer want .40 limited.
Wrong, it’s not word games.
I seriously can’t believe I’m saying thing again, but it’s identical to Optics being allowed in Open. You don’t HAVE to use an optic, but since they are specifically allowed in the division (like major scoring) be silly to not use one.
Wrong again.
I’ll use myself as an example. I think Limited Minor as a division is nonsense. Major in Limited makes sense to me. I’m fine with shooting .40. However, if USPSA instated “limited minor” as a division, I’d move to that (as would everyone else). All Limited shooters I’ve discussed it with feel the same. Doesn’t mean they want it. And yes, tens of thousands of .40 Limited guns would be obsolete over night.
Similarly, I (along with most other serious CO shooters) think allowing WMLs is nonsense. However, I strapped one onto my G34 as soon as they were allowed.
You don’t have to restructure your argument, that’s your prerogative, but “Major should only exist in Open” sounds/is more logical and will garner more support than “Limited Minor”.
I should have stopped after my post on page 11. It said what needed to be said. Go re-read it.
Y’all have fun.
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3 minutes ago, twodownzero said:
There never was any intention for major to be competitive in any division where major was recognized. Before minor revolver allowed 8 shots, Single Stack was the only division where that was even hypothetically possible and before about 10 years ago, virtually noone shot minor in Single Stack despite the hypothetical possibility it could be competitive. It was virtually unheard of to see minor guns in any division besides Production in those days.
It has been relatively recent rule changes that made this a thing in our sport. Before then, major was such an obvious and significant benefit in scoring that Production was specifically made the way it is so that 9mm could have a place to compete in our sport at all. Those of you new to the sport may not realize this. Those of us who have been here a while have seen minor divisions take off and revolver transformed from a nearly-all major division to a minor division.
Say it louder for the ones in the back!! -
2 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
Are you serious? If they didn't intend for them to be competitive they would have never put them in the same competitive divisions and/or came up with a scoring systems that attempts to make them comparable.
This is where you get off track.
USPSA didn’t “put them in the same divisions”, some divisions just ALLOW major power factor and thereby an advantage in scoring over minor.
I legitimately don’t know what part of USPSA scoring you think attempts to make major and minor “comparable” or competitive with each other. The scoring system awards major PF by definition. They are not, and are not intended to be competitive against each other within a division.
This thread has devolved into complete clown shoes. So, I’ll end my tenure in the thread with this...
Defining any two otherwise identical divisions solely by major/minor scoring would 100% de facto kill the “major” division. NO ONE would choose to shoot Limited “Major”. So, you should restructure your argument into “major should only exist in Open” or something along those lines. That at least sounds logical.
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20 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
I agree it is a principle but it has been proven that .40 is rewarded too much. So all I am saying is the power factors for limited should be separate as I think correcting the formula would be an even more difficult task.
WHO says Major is rewarded too much? You? I say it’s rewarded just the right amount.
Where did you dream up the idea that anyone ever intended for major and minor to be even remotely competitive against each other within the same division? By your own example, the IPSC/USPSA motto REWARDS "power".
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3 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
Then how/why did it become a "foundation" of IPSC shooting and the basis of the power factor based scoring?
IPSC Motto
The Latin words Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas (DVC) meaning accuracy, power, and speed are IPSC's motto and form the foundation for competition.
"DVC" is the reason Major PF scoring is advantageous. That's not super hard to grasp.
Per the "DVC" motto....
More accuracy = better
More power = better
More speed = better
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3 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
You are missing the point. DVC says minor and major should both be competitive, that is why there is a power factor formula to begin with. The fallacy is that DVC still matters.
What?
It says nothing of the sort.
"Accuracy, Power, Speed".
"Power" gives nod to the fact that Cooper thought more power (major PF) was advantageous in defensive shooting (thereby it is advantageous in practical shooting).
"DVC" was Coopers formula for successful defensive shooting. Nothing more, nothing less.
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9 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
A limited gun in minor is competitive equipment. Why do we insist those be stuck in a division with a permanent scoring disadvantage to .40 caliber...
This is the fallacy I alluded to earlier... that every pistol and cartridge combo deserves it's own comfy (competitive) place to compete in the sport.
Does your idea hold up for Open too? "I want to shoot a 9mm Minor 2011 with a frame mounted optic. Why should I be handicapped by Major scoring?!??!"
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4 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:
Why are we attempting to cater to people with minor guns? If one cannot be bothered to buy competitive equipment for a division then why does EVERYONE who chose to do this have to now suffer and adjust what they're running?YOU'RE NOT WOKE ENOUGH, MAN!
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1 minute ago, Jeff226 said:
No, I am not talking in circles. If those benefits actually existed, minor would be competitive at the major matches. It has been documented for years that minor is not competitive at major matches.
So your presupposition is that the "benefits" of shooting Minor should make it competitively equal to Major in all instances? To take from your "DVC" example earlier, you are rewarded for more "V". It's not SUPPOSED to be competitively equal.
My wife shoots Minor in SSTK because she feels that 9MM recoil is beneficial for her compared to .40 or 45. That's her choice. You can make the same choice. OR you can choose more "V" and be rewarded for that.
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4 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
No, my understanding is just fine. The sport was built on DVC. In major vs minor scoring, there is not enough D and V to make up for the benefit major gets for its supposed C. There should be benefits to reap in choosing either power factor...not just additional benefits for shooting major.
You're talking in circles.
There ARE benefits. More capacity, less recoil, etc. Within the confines of the sport, whether or not those are beneficial enough for you to choose Minor over Major is 100% up to you.
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16 minutes ago, Jeff226 said:
Nobody was talking about buying a single stack to compete in limited...what a stupid point. Thread is called "limited minor" not "which single stack for limited"
If the rules have choices for power factor, and one power factor is always the "wrong" choice, then why pretend there are choices?
This is a backwards understanding of the rules.
In Open, Limited, SSTK, & Revo, Major Power factor scoring is ALLOWED. In those divisions, you are given the option to shoot Major and reap the scoring benefits associated with it.
It is no different than an optic being ALLOWED in Open. You are given the option to use an optic, and not doing so is ill-advised.
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5 minutes ago, Cuz said:
I totally agree about the dumpster fire.
But, we do have a place for everyone to shoot what they want. There are VERY few guns that wouldn’t fit into one of the existing divisions. So everyone can come and play. You just might not win, so you need to learn to deal with that.
That is exactly the point.... Kind of.
It really doesn't matter how many guns exist that don't fit perfectly into a USPSA division. That should have little bearing on the division requirements themselves.
Sure... Slowly, over time, divisions may need to be modified slightlyk to include or preclude certain types of equipment, modifications, accessories, etc, but it should not be frequent.
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This thread is a dumpster fire.
Adding divisions and diluting the rule set and equipment is NOT healthy for an amateur competitive sport. Period. "All inclusive" is not what makes an organized sport attractive.
A lot of sports have somewhat arbitrary rules that you have to abide by. This is no different. If you want to shoot an iron sighted 2011 in USPSA and be competitive, you shoot .40.
"Well I want to shoot a new fancy 2011, but .40 is stupid!?!"
Sorry, this isn't BK. You can't "have it your way". Handicap yourself in Limited or find another division.
I'm really over this whole "we need to have a spot for everyone and what they want to shoot" idea.
Stop it. That's not now competitive sports work, and that's not what makes them attractive to COMPETITORS.
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Appreciate the positive feedback.
We’re (PD) doing everything we can to make the process seamless for everyone.
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1 hour ago, AverageJoeShooting said:
ive been using them for 2 years now and still hear just as well as i did when i started
Put another way...Your Axils have at BEST a 27NRR. So, by OSHAs standards, they attenuate a noise by about 10dB’s.
let’s assume an Open gun report is 165 dB’s, (which is probably at the low end). That means your ears are still being exposed to nearly 155dB’s. More than enough to do permanent damage immediately, much less over the course of repeated exposure.
Even if you don’t use OSHA’s recommended 50% correction factor, 27NRR still only provides 20dB of actual attenuation. So your ears are still being exposed to nearly 145dB. Again, more than enough to cause damage.
Hey, I have zero problem with someone choosing to risk their hearing. That’s their prerogative, and I say more power to you. But to imply or claim that 27NRR plugs are completely adequate for sustained Open gun shooting is naive.
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1 hour ago, AverageJoeShooting said:
ive been using them for 2 years now and still hear just as well as i did when i started
I’ll assume you mean that over the course of those two years, you’ve had periodic audiometric testing done, and that you’re not just speaking anecdotally.
The reality is that almost all ear plugs provide insufficient protection for sustained, close proximity open gun fire.
Double up. You’ll probably enjoy shooting more.
My ears hurt
in Open Pistols
Posted
Exactly.