[Walls with shooting ports]

Thanks. I think they came out good. I built 10 of these so far. They are kind of big and awkward, but are light and pretty easy to move. Best part is I only have about $20 into each one. The UHMW mesh works great and will dang near last a lifetime sitting in an outdoor environment.

[Walls with shooting ports]

Here's what the new walls/port looked like in action at our clubs first action pistol match. Match went great, we had 15 shooters and 6 stages. I'm guessing at least double the attendance for the next one. I didn't really advertise this one since it was our first match, but next time it's "Game on".

[Walls with shooting ports]

Actually cut the ports in 2 of the walls last night at 12"W x 24"H. Then took bright orange duck tape and bordered it. What's nice about the plastic mesh is it's fairly rigid so I just zip tied in the piece I cut out back in its place. If there wasn't a bright orange border you would never know it's there. Build a stage where you want a port.....cut 2 zip ties and you have it.

[Walls with shooting ports]

You know what works for everybody... leaving a gap between two walls, that forms your port.

Biggest concern there is if someone gets too far left or right they shoot the frame of the wall instead of the cheap easily replacable UHMW mesh. I know almost everything gets shot up eventually, but I try to avoid it if possible.

[Walls with shooting ports]

Yeah your probably right, my wife is only 5'2". If I go with 12"W x 18"H ports with the top at 5'6", the bottom would be at 4'. Anyone that can't see over that can just as easily shoot under the walls.

[Walls with shooting ports]

Building some new walls for our club. Wondering on walls with ports what the typical size and height is for your walls. I'm thinking about 12x12 with it centered about 5' off the ground seems about right, but figured I would ask.

The material I am using is a Yellow UV resistant high density light weight plastic 1/4" mesh. So I can put ports whever I wish and just zip-tie the piece I cut out back in place when the ports are not being used. Hard to explain verbally it's a product our company uses for lightweight guarding on conveyors. Here's a link

[barrel clamp suggestions]

Nordid Components makes great products and is a huge supporter of the shooting sports. I would check them out.

[2012 CMMG Midwest 3 Gun Championships]

And this ole' boy is switching to TAC IRON.....with real irons too!! Well, not the standard run of the mill real irons.

Hope I can see targets past 20 yards.

I hope there are no 400 & 500 yard shots this year.

Actually I am hoping for the 400 and 500 yard shots since that's kind of my strong point coming from a benchrest and F-class background. Might give me a chance to make up for my weak handgun game.

[2012 CMMG Midwest 3 Gun Championships]

I just booked a room at the Silver Lake Motel in Fayette, MO. Closest Motel to the range. From what Mr. Payne has told me, nice rooms, clean.

I didn't even think that they would have any rooms left.....but he does. So if you want to stay close to the range give them a call at 660-248-3335 and they'll take care of you. The owners name is Brian.

Tim

See you there Tim I booked a room back in December, though I thought it was called the Siver Belle. No it doesn't look like the Hilton, but as long as there's a roof and a bed it's all I need. The owner seems really nice, it's close to the range and the price can't be beat. I have a portable grill and a cooler, so I'm not worried too much about bars or restaurants either. I'm a pretty low maintianance guy so I don't need anything with 5 stars as long as there's a little

Chris Sell

[550b for 223?]

I use a 550 to load .223 for 3-gun as well, but I do all the case prep on my single stage. That way I can go through and trim, chamfer and debur as well as clean the primer pockets and check for crimped primer pockets. Then they go in the Dillon for primer seating, charge and bullet seating. I’ve been loading for AR’s for 15 years and have never crimped a case neck. There is plenty of neck tension to hold the bullet in a .223 cartridge without it moving around. If you start crimping necks unless you case length is 100% uniform it’s going to affect accuracy . For 3-gun I use 25 grains of H335 behind a 55gr Hornady FMJ loaded to 2.250 OAL, easy sub-MOA round. I should mention I’ve had much better accuracy results using Hornady FMJ’s than any others. Accuracy loads are all done an a single stage using 69 gr SMK’s and 25.3 gr of Varget.

[So what should I be doing for drills]

WOW... Holy crap Kelly, that's awesome thanks for sharing. Thats probably more rounds than I shoot in 2 months. I would need to get a second job to buy the ammo components, but even if I had the ammo I couldn't spend that much time at range with just the one job I have now. Sorry to say your training regiment is out the door for me. Wish I could, but not likely for this shmuck.I usually get out for one good practice session on Saturday or Sunday every week and will typically burn about 50-100 rounds in each weapon. As far as matches go, one a month is about all there is here in MN and I have to drive 2-3 hours to go to them. In 4 weeks though we are starting our own action pistol shoots on our home range, so I'll soon be able to do some comps without the long drives. It's just pistol, but that's probably the weapon I need to work with most anyhow.I try to practice at home as much as I can, but working 50 hours a week and having a 2 month old son doesn't leave much for free time. I also have to keep up with my ammo loading in that spare time as well. I do what I can and that's about all I can do

[2012 CMMG Midwest 3 Gun Championships]

The only thing you are going to regret is that the match wasn't 5 days long and 20 stages.

Jay

This!

Thanks, good to know. This is only going to be my 4th 3-gun match so as excited as I am for it, I'm still a bit apprehensive. I was hoping to hit a few more local matches before going, but sometimes life just gets in the way.

[So what should I be doing for drills]

Chris: I just saw the match results...good showing on your part.

A few comments on your post and the weekend.

1.) Weather was forecast to be rain and cold.(Wish I'd worn longjohns) Pack a rain suit next time. I started getting cold and put mine on, it really helped with the wind too. Keep a pair of gloves just for while you are shooting, another pair for the down time. Dry means alot more comfort.

2.) Grip was slippery... skateboard tape on the weapon? Check division rules and see. I tried some out on my M&P for fun and it made a huge difference.

3.) I think we all suffered from fumbled reloads because our fingers were cold.

4.) Focus. Forgetting the two at the end of stage 3 was you not sticking to your plan. Plan it, shoot it. *** Notice I had a brain fade on that stage...as I was reloading the SG going to the star, I dropped a couple shells and STOOPED AND PICKED THEM UP! Duh! Still had plenty on the Otto Load Two**

This was not in my plan!!!

Now take all this with the knowledge this was my second 3Gun match. But I do try to observe and learn. Thanks again for loaning the Benelli on stage 1. I would have hated to go home and not shoot the whole match because I had a non functioning shotgun.

1.Well I was wearing thermals, and was prepared for a chance of showers but not a drawn out rain like we got. I did have some cheap ass rain gear, but turned out it wasn't any warmer than a wet insulated jacket. I couldn't find my good rain gear the night before the match....the mystery continues there.

2. Definetly going to do something with the grips on the gun, but had I not had a bum hand I don't think it would have been as much of an issue.

3. Not much I can say there, you pretty much nailed it but I still should have done better.

4. With the big back-up on that stage I never even did a stage walk through and didn't even notice those targets on re-sets until right before I was up. In a way I did stick to my plan......only those targets weren't in it

Glad to help you out with loaning you my shotgun. For me, what makes 3-gun great is as much about the people, as it is about the competition.

Later, Chris

[2012 CMMG Midwest 3 Gun Championships]

I agree a little more information would be nice. I hope I don't end up regretting choosing this match for my first major. Hopefully we'll see something soon.

[So what should I be doing for drills]

Well I made it to my fourth match last Saturday and things are looking a little better. This was a really fun match, but I still left myself plenty of room for improvement. Ended up 5th in Tac-ops in a field of 44. Weather was not so great as it was like 50 degrees, windy and raining most the day. Really struggled with my handgun this match, partially me, partially the gun. I had injured my right wrist earlier in the weak and it really messed up my grip. Combine a weak grip with wet hands and a wet gun (I’m shooting an XDm 5.25 in .40) the thing was like trying to hang on to a greased pig. I had heard complaints about the grips being too slippery on the XDm’s, but until now had never been a problem for me. I’ll be looking into stippling or grip tape shortly though. Other than that I do love the gun, I’ve got just short of 2000 rounds through it without a single hiccup. Our squad started on stage 4 so that’s where I’ll begin the breakdown.

Stage 4: All rifle. Double lolli-pop at 100 yards, (2) flashers at 150 and (2) more at 200. Engage both 200 yard targets from behind a V-Tac the move to 3 other barricades engaging all 6 targets. 20 target total.

---Best stage of the match for me, not much to complain about here. Finished 3 seconds behind the stage winner at 96% with the 3rd fastest time across all divisions. Went 20 targets for 22 shots. Good start, but now it’s starting to rain.

Stage 1: Shotgun-pistol. Shotgun targets (clays and 5x5s) through 4 ports (2 left, 2 right) then pistol on a collection of IPSC’s from 2 positions.

---Now it’s raining pretty good and everything is soaked. Started with shotgun and basically just shot too slow. Was too worried about missing a target to hit the *thumb rest [generic]* and dropped a shell on one of my reloads. Pistol things went all to pieces. Couldn’t control the gun, had to reposition my hands after almost every round. Was slow and hit (2) no shoots. Worst stage of the day finishing 57% of the stage winner. Overall shotgun transitions sucked and bobbled a reload. Need to get some more texture on the handgun grip for rainy days.

Stage 2: Pistol-Rifle. Collection of Poppers and IPSC’s. lots of walls and movement to get position on targets. Start with Pistol abandon midpoint and finish with rifle.

---More of the same with the pistol, just having trouble steering the gun. Hit one no-shoot, got a FTN and got a procedural for not getting my handgun in the dump bucket. Sucks, but not as bad as it sounds. The rules said the handgun had to be unloaded and clear and placed in a bucket under a table. I did unload and clear but instead of putting the gun in the bucket I set it on the table. Had it been a loaded gun it would have been a DQ, but at our matches you never abandon a hot weapon. It was a pretty fast stage so the lost time in penalties cost me big. 63% on this stage

Stage 3: Rifle-Shotgun. Start with rifle and engage 10 IPSC’s at 100 yards with lots of tricky hard-cover and no-shoots from behind a Bianchi barrier. 5 from the left and 5 from the right. Then ditch the rifle, grab staged shotgun and start going down range engaging 5x5’s and poppers with a Texas star at the end. Quit raining but is now cold and windy and I’m drenched.

---Almost did okay on this one. Time was good with the rifle until it was scored, I had one FTN and one no-shoot. Shotgun started good then I botched a reload and dropped 1 shell, then botched another and dropped 2 shells. Cold fingers and weak-hand loading just don’t mix well. Got down to the star with 6 shells left in the gun and thought Okay. Took the first four paddles pretty fast and then missed a shot, slowed down aimed and took out the last paddle. As I’m sitting there with an empty gun thinking I had just done pretty well, the RO says “Left and Right”. Crap…..I had totally forgotten about (2) 5x5’s on the left and right of the star. Loaded one in the port and one into mag and finally finished. Lesson here…..Don’t be stupid and forget targets and keep practicing shotgun reloads. 67% on this stage.

Unfortunately this will most likely be my last 3-gun match before heading to the CMMG Midwest Championships, but I think I have a pretty good idea what I still need to work on in preparation for my first major match.

1. Pistol accuracy….Hit way too many no shoots. Hopefully this comes back as my wrist heals and it already feels quite a bit better than it did a few days ago. For a while I was worried that I really screwed something up.

2. Shotgun loading (still)……dropped shells 3 times loading the shotgun

3. Target transitions with the shotgun……Need to get on the gas with the shotgun transitions. I got burned so bad by misses from going too fast at the match in March that I slowed down way too much. Need to keep practicing to find the middle ground.

I made myself (30) 5x5 knock downs to practice for this event. With a little over a month to go before the match I better get out and start doing some serious drills. Feel free to offer any additional advice, I’ve only got about 40 days left to get my poop in a group

Thanks,

Chris

[The Walking Dead Season 2]

Yeah... I need whatever Shotgun Hershal was using.

+1. The mag capacity on that thing is UNREAL!!

Xrail? PFFFFFFFFFFFT! I want a Hershalmod pump!

Yea it had the new top secret +25 tube for the 870 coming from Nordic. It was so top secret they had to digitally remove it from the screen before airing the show. Oh well, it's TV and to be expected.

Overall great ending to the season though, nice to see a little more action and a little less drama.

[Starting handgun matches at my local club]

Thanks for the pointers gang. I’ll try to hit everything mentioned in one windy post….here we go.

First off I should clarify something I could have stated better in my original post. I am not a USPSA shooter, never even been to a sanctioned USPSA match. I’m a 3-gun shooter, that’s just trying to get something a little more fun than benchrest shooting going at our home range. I would attend pistol only shoots if there were any within a reasonable distance of here, and yes I live in the sticks. It would be great for 3-gun practice and for the fact I would like to shoot more than the once a month 3-gun matches in MN. My long term goal is 3-gun events here, but right now I can’t get enough guys to hold a match and our range needs some dirt work done to make it really work for 3-gun. We tried last year and had 4 people turn out to shoot and 15 or so came to watch. A lot of tire kickers, but most of the folks around here just don’t have the gear or are intimidated by the 3-gun concept. On the other hand there have been quite a few guys ask me about pistol only shoots and just about everyone around here owns a handgun and a holster. I should also mention we have had some steel challenge type shoots as well as bowling pin shoots that have had pretty good turn-outs. It’s just time to crank up the fun factor a bit.

The reason I’m going with so much steel is….I can get a lot of it for free and the rest is cheap, plus it’s just more fun to shoot than paper, especially when you’re trying to bring in new shooters. I work for a manufacturing company that specializes in material handling conveyors and mining equipment. We process more than 250,000 lbs. of raw steel every week. That buying power is what allows me purchase steel at pretty low cost, plus the founder of our company and a good portion of management are club members, this helps us out from time to time as well Due to the nature of some of our products I can get 1/2” thick steel circular disks ranging from 3”-12” in dia. by the hundreds for free. They are mild steel, but if they get beat up we just chuck them. When shot with handgun only they pretty much last forever, with a rifle....different story.

Actually I am considering dropping the plate rack for a couple reasons. 1. They are really heavy and is going to be a pain to set up every time. Our range is also unsupervised so I can’t leave anything out, unless I want it to get destroyed. 2. The cost. 3. I can buy steel in any grade I want, cut to any shape I want through my place of employment at a pretty low cost.

The poppers I’m planning on getting are only the 28’s. The 42’s are a bugger to lug around and set up. I have procured pretty good pricing on them if I buy in a qty. of 5 or more from a local (they’re in my state anyways), but reputable target manufacturer.

The steel silhouettes…..This is mostly due to the lay of our range. We have one berm on the other side of a small stream. They would make great target to set over there without having to keep sending people back and forth across the bridge to paste targets. It would make for a really cool stage layout. We’ve used silhouettes like this at a few of the multi-gun’s I go to and they worked really well, and they are fun to shoot. Yes I was planning on going with time plus scoring, just cause that’s what I know from 3-Gun comps.

All our targets will get locked up when not in use.

I do have 3-4 guys that want to help run things once we get going, but I am going to be responsible for getting targets and organizing the matches. Plus I can weld and am kind of the crafty one in the bunch. So it’s either do it myself or pay someone else to do it. That’s why I was asking about the PVC target stands, it would be something the rest of the group could put together and take of my plate.

I think I got everything. Thanks for taking an interest everyone.

[AR 400 vs. AR 225 for pistol targets]

Thanks for the link, but I can buy steel much cheaper through my place of empoyment than anywhere I've seen on the web. I work for a large equipment manufacturer that specializes in material handling and mining equipment. Even at my cost though, AR400/AR500/450Hardox, the stuff is expensive these days. Thats why I'm willing to try the AR225. I can buy it at less than 1/2 the price of AR400.

Edited to add. Just looked it up, we actually go through over 250,000lbs of raw steel every week.

[AR 400 vs. AR 225 for pistol targets]

IPSC target silhouettes won't be all that useful in USPSA legal match. I'm curious what kind of match would need them?

Cardboard targets, and perhaps a few poppers will do fine for your first season.

Our matches aren’t going to be USPSA sanctioned, I’m just in this for fun and to bring something new to our range. If we get enough people, maybe we will eventually.

Why the steel silhouettes? Cause we have a small river on one side of our range that has a berm on the other side. I think it would make for cool targets to shoot from across the river without having to constantly send people across the bridge to paste targets.

[Starting handgun matches at my local club]

I realize this post covers a broad area, but I wanted to keep the dialog to a single thread vs. trying to keep up with 5.

I’ve made it my mission this summer to get action pistol shoots going at my clubs range. It’s currently a 2-3 hour drive for me to get to any pistol matches and I would rather spend money on bullets than gas. I’m basically starting from scratch and have a $3000 budget to buy everything from targets to props to shot timers, so yea, I’m spread paper thin. I know my list of targets and props will be lame compared to the larger clubs that have been doing this a while. As much as I’d like to go out and buy the best of the best and 2 of everything it’s not going to happen here. Whenever one starts to talk about budget and gear, the first response is always “Buy once, Cry once”, which I can agree with almost all the time. In this case though it’s kind of “Get what we can afford and make it work”. Also due to the current shape of our range we can only run 2 stages per match, but we’ll shoot each twice and make the best of it. We have room to put in more bays, but I need to get a following before the rest of the board will agree to let me bring in the dozer. But for now I have to be realistic with the limited budget and the fact that it’s possible I might not find enough shooters to make this a success. I’ve got about 20 people so far that have said they would like to shoot and am in the process of reaching out to other clubs. If I consistently get 20 people to show up for an informal monthly match I’ll call it a win. Rules for our matches would be roughly based off USPSA rules, with a little more built in leeway. This is going to be more for fun than die-hard competition…..at least to start.

Targets:

For steel, I am looking at getting (10) 28” poppers, a plate rack, (30) 5x5 steel knock-downs, plus we have dozens of round knock-downs 6-12” in diameter. Plus I am getting a couple full and 2/3 size steel IPSC targets made for longer shots. Any further suggestions, please remember I’m on a real slim budget.

Paper targets. Going to start with 100-200 IPSC targets and the pasters needed. Looking at Shooters Connection for these, any point looking elsewhere? No such thing as a local supplier in this neck of the woods so freight is inevitable.

Target stands for paper. There was post a while back about using a simple U-shaped PVC pipe holder that you just spiked to the ground, I’ve also seen full frame free-standing PVC target stands that look like they would work well, any long term reports. I realize PVC might be toast with 1 shot and it’s not going to be as durable as steel , but it’s also easy to repair. The main reason I’m really interested in the PVC holders is they would be easy for some of our other members to build. Trying to avoid having to do absolutely everything myself and I really don’t feel like spending even more time out in the shop welding H frames on top of the targets and props I already have to make

Walls. At one of the ranges I shoot at, they use triangular pieces of plate steel with (2) upright 2” dia. tubes welded to them. They could be staked to the ground, use 2x2’s in the tubes for uprights and snow fencing for walls. This seems to work well, but could I do better? Looking for cheap, easy to set-up, cheap, versatile and cheap.

Again sorry for the barrage of questions, I probably don’t have the experience I should have to plan this all out on my own, but we have to start somewhere. Feel free to offer any advice or suggestions. Who knows, maybe I’m crazy for trying to pull this off, but I’m betting almost every successful club match out there started with a firm push from one person. So vs. sit on the couch I guess I’ll push. Like I said, right now I have about 20 people that want to shoot, but I hope if we can just get it going, more people will want to get involved.

Thanks,

Chris Sell

[Stainless steel for targets?]

It does somewhat depend on grade, but generaly it's harder and more brittle. We use a lot of disposable mild steel(A36)discs for long range rifle targets (I get them for free,perk of my job). I had some stainless disks from the scrap bin, I though I would try. At 200 yards a 107 grain 6mm bullet leaves a heavy crater on 3/8" mild, On 3/8 stainless it punched out a perfect hole with no crater, like it actually busted the hole out. From my experience your better of with regular steel.

Tip if you ever drill stainless........let an ice cube melt on it before you drill, you might have to do this a couple times depending on the thickness. It drills much easier when it's cold.

[AR 400 vs. AR 225 for pistol targets]

Buy Once - Cry Once. Always.

They will concave after usage...

I've considered this as well. Since they are going to be hanging targets they could easily be flipped the opposite direction for every match. We’ll have to take them down after every match anyways. Remember these are also for small club level matches, just starting out and we have a limited budget. I’d love to have a blank check to send to MGM for 2 of everything they make, but that’s not going to happen. I have a lot of expenses to cover beyond just getting targets. If I can get 2-3 years out of them to get us started I’ll be happy.

[AR 400 vs. AR 225 for pistol targets]

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to try the AR225. Like you said if mild steel holds up(when not abused,) a low grade hardened steel should be fine. If it craps the bed I'm only out $100 for (2) full size and (2)2/3 size steel IPSC's. Just starting out the more we can get for the least amount of $$, the better we'll be.

Anyone out there with specifc experience with AR225?

[2012 CMMG Midwest 3 Gun Championships]

Rules are up on the website if anyone is interested.

[AR 400 vs. AR 225 for pistol targets]

Due to the fact that from my area it’s a minimum 2 hour drive to the closest matches, I have committed myself to get pistol matches going at my club range. I’m basically starting from scratch here and have a $3000 budget to buy everything from targets to props to shot timers, so yea, I’m spread paper thin.

My question:

Okay, it’s been widely accepted that AR400 is recommended for pistol targets while AR500 is recommended for rifle targets. But at the same time I have several targets made out of A36 (mild steel)that seem nearly indestructible when used for 9mm, .40 and .45 shot at 10 yards or more. I’m looking at getting some full and 2/3 size IPSC targets cut. In 3/8” AR400 a full size will run me about $60, but if I drop down to AR225, I can get the same target for only $27. Since these are pretty large targets and would be used for longer shots (20 yards+), do you guys think the AR 225 would be sufficient? Though we use it on a regular basis at my work I’ve never heard AR 225 come up for use as target steel. Keep in mind these won't be used for major matches with 100's of shooters. Starting out, I'll consider it a success if I can get 20-30 shooters. Thanks in advance for your suggestions folks.