mont1120
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Posts posted by mont1120
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Prior to the Area 1 match I placed my.45 rounds on the dash in the sun, and turned on the heater. After basically melting me out of the truck, I can say without a doubt, WST slows down dramatically in the heat. I lost between 50 -55 feet per second with this kind a heat. I had to run home, and load a bunch of .45's with WSF, and that powder seems to be stable no matter what.
At the match one of the 9MM shooters using WST slowed down enough to go SUB MINOR. I personally know the guy, and he is not the kind to ever try and shave the line to gain that much of an advantage. Heck of a thing to go to a match and being out of the game from the start.
So, while I really like WST, for major matches I simply do not trust it.
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Just attended the Area 1 USPSA, and in the heat noted two .40 shooters and 1 .38 Super shooter go minor. Another 9MM went sub minor. I will say, I like WST for both my .45 and.40 rounds, but in the heat they really slow down. WST and the Blue bullets using 165 grain is great to use, low recoil, but I would not trust them at a chrono match if it is getting hot.
For matches in the heat I really like WSF. I bought some last year during the big powder crunch (oddly still in effect) and have learned it is very stable in hot or cold temps. Sometimes the basic powders are really the best.
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Many times on the forum I see the warning on the inverse temp issue with WST. Living in the NW it never has been much of an issue, EXCEPT the Area 1 shoot in ID looks like temps close to 100 degrees.
What is the best way to calculate the expected loss in FPS so the 230 grain Blue Bullet does not get chrono'd as minor? Right now I am using 4.2 grains of WST over that weight, and my power factor is running close to 171 at 65 degrees.
In addition, does the weight of the bullet affect the temperature loss in FPS in relationship to loss versus heat? I can load some 200 grain Blue Bullets quickly to have a better margin of error at the meet. I need every single point I can get. I figure just my personal slow down running amuck in 100 degree weather will also be proportional to my points.
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I really like my Pro Chrono but cannot get it to work with the supplied cable and my Samsung Galaxy 8. Is there a bug or something?
It sees the chrono but will not consistently record the data as displayed on the screen
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Well, the experiment with the 700X came up short, but never one to be deterred, I will raise my starting level and try again.
On the other hand, reduced loads using WST were fantastic, thanks GeorgeD.
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Well, last night I loaded up some reduced 700X loads with 180 Extreme flatpoint, and some Blue Bullet 165 to take to the range. I can say with absolute certainty that if I thought 800X metered badly, 700X is really the test of ones patience. If the rounds function OK, it will be a mandatory addition of the air pump from Wallys and checking every 12th round to stay safe.
A .3 grain swing is pretty average. But, as with all "get what you can purchase", there is always a neat cost at the end to remind you why you shouldn't buy impulsively. On the other hand, the 800X works so well in my.45, it is now my favorite powder, but again, metering boulder sized cornflakes is about as much fun as watching tires rot.
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The replies are pretty clear, so no way do I even want to chance wrecking a rifle or even coming close to. The 296 will be regulated to pistol magnum loads and its intended purposes. This is why forums like this are so valuable, it keeps many from making mistakes that should never had been tried.
On the 4227 load, I use Exteme 55 gr FMJ bullets, and get right around 2800 fps. That is with 15.2 grains. It runs my DPMS M4 perfectly. It really is like shooting a .22 magnum. Minimal recoil and I have yet to have a failure to eject or feed. Certainly it is my 3 gun round for short distances.
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Has anyone tried using Win 296 in 55 grain FMJ .223 loads. I have been using IMR4227 for low recoil loads shooting 3 gun, but have run out and have 3 lbs of the 296 taking up space. I have used 296 in .30 carbine loads, but it will take some time before I would ever shoot that much.
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Thanks rsrocket1, good info. I'm completely out of Clays, so I will try the 3 grains of 700X and 180 grain Xtremes. Hopefully the sparkling fire works show will not be an issue. As with a lot of shooters, I bought some powders I never normally would. In the sparsely populated NW, we buy what we can get our grubby little mitts on.............
Come to think of it I do have some Red Dot leftover too............
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Thanks for the replies. I did load a few rounds with less than recommended minimum loads to try and duplicate the same velocity and recoil using 700X. It still seemed a bot stouter, but what was really odd is the muzzle blast seemed to have tiny flakes of powder igniting like random firework sparkles.
Nothing to alarm a person, just very noticeable. My thinking is higher pressures are needed to ignite all of the powder in the case, or the powder is very position sensitive.
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Having used up the last of the Clays I had squirreled away, has anyone used reduced loads with 700X for .40 loads using 165 and 180 grain reduced recoil loads? I managed to pick up 4 lbs of the 700X, and noted on the burn chart it sits right next to Clays.
Being so similar at least in terms of burn speed, my thinking is reducing the load in 700X should get me close to the Clays 3.2 load with 165 Blue Bullets, and 3.o grs of Clays using 180 Xtremes.
Are there other factors in reducing 700X that would cause similar loads not to function properly, such as power position, pressure spikes, or other variables?
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I am one of those who just loves to experiment a lot with loads and different types of bullets to find the best combination for each individual firearm. One observation that stands out is each pistol likes something different, even if they are the same platform and feed system.
For instance, my Kimber will not feed Berrys 230 RN, but my RO Springfield runs them fine. I tried the Blue Bullet 185 coated of a semi wadcutter design, and the Kimber simply hates them. In addition to bullet type, certain powders change the accuracy in a dramatic way also.
From a pure bullet viewpoint, Montana Golds are superb. And you will certainly pay for that performance. Shooting the 230 grain HP is almost double a plated or coated design bullet. Following that bullet, I really like the Extreme 230 HP. The Bayous were average in 230 grain, and I just ordered 250 Blue Bullet 230 grain to see how they work.
I have yet to try 200 grain rounds, but there is plenty of time left...........
Powders???? Since the big shortage I have had to try new ones, and found 800X to be really a great .45 powder IF you can get it to meter right. I finally found WST, which works great too. WSF is not bad, but again, it is the experimental and trial and error that will find what works well for your particular firearm.
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Has anyone here used WST or WSF? What loads worked the best to make major using these bullets. I just ordered the 250 pack to try them out. I have always used plated in the past but wanted to see if these were any better.
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Since my issues came up, I check the rims of .40 brass pretty close. I have indeed found some what look like hairline cracks along the case where the rim is. I do not use wet tumbling at all. Both rim separation were absolutely lead 180 grain rounds. Why plated rounds don't do it I am not sure. Again, not being an engineer, perhaps and I stress perhaps there is some odd pressure spike with this particular round.
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I want to be clear that I only question whether or not it fired out of battery. I am not saying that was the cause but was just throwing it out there in case there was some other info on the issue. I too use PMC brass extensively, in my .45 and 9MM, so the problem is the exact combination for my situation, Unique, 180 gr lead, and PMC, which will give me a head separation. There is something happening I dont understand, but having it happen twice is good enough for me, I was fortunate enough the third time did not crack the frame, but it was PMC again.
One of those mystery's. I cant imagine it is not overpressure of some sort caused by the combo.
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I wonder if there is a difference between PMC brass and all others. I know this has occurred with two other XDM's and at least to myself the problem is not the reload, but a combination of other issues. For certain my loads was not over maximum, and I was not using magnum primers. I do know the rounds were lead 180 grain, but I cannot imagine that was the issue. If anything that lowered the pressure, or should have.
Perhaps this is a problem of shooting rapidly and the longer frame not quite returning to battery fast enough and the gun is suffering from out of battery issues. Were either of the other shooters who had the same experience shooting 180 lead also?
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I have had the same problem twice. Finally found it was an overpressure issue with Unique and specifically PMC brass. The problem is have is I was NOT loading over the listed data. I still to this day cannot understand how it has happened. Springfield keeps saying it is not the guns fault, but I will be damned if it did not happen again in 9MM.
And yes, it was Unique again. My only advice is don't use Unique or any other powder close in performance at anything near max loads.
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When I first tried using the BBI's the first thing I noticed at the indoor range was the smell. I'm sure it is the coating. Nothing to be concerned with, but you just may break the concentration of your competitor buddies after you light off about 35 of them in a stage...........
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I agree with Buddy, Unique max loads are exactly that. Do not go over, especially with the magnum primer.
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For the 200 grain bullets, what was the powder charge weight using WSF? Has anyone used WSF at the 180 grain level and had much success?
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With the move by some shooters to bring the 9MM to major PF, I wonder if the added force required to achieve the PF causes the rims to be subjected to forces they are not normally designed for. As in all manufacturing processes, the cheaper an item is made, the more profit. I am unaware of any 9MM brass designed specifically for this high power factor.
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Ok Gents, sorry it took so long but I finally reloaded the 9MM, .40, and .45 rounds, Bayou compared to the others.....Please keep in mind I had never used the Bayous, have no reason to like or dislike them, I simply approached the experiment from a detached viewpoint.
The chrono readings were taken indoor, a Caldwell chrono, and used the magical Lowes hardware store LED closet lights to get reasonable readings. used mixed brass, Winchester regular primers.
9MM 147 Grain, XDM 4.5
Xtreme RN, 3.4 gr 231
894, 885, 886, 886
Bayou Green, 3.4 gr 231
851, 883, 870, 901
Really this load was almost too light just barely operating my slide. Average accuracy. Both rounds should be bumped up a tenth or 2. I saw no real noticeable difference except light smoke on the Bayou.
.40 155 grain XDM 5.0
Lasercast RNL
5.0 gr. 231
947, 958, 964, 1020, 999. Looks like one just a bit extra. Average smoke.Very usable.
Bayou 155 gr RN
5.0 gr. 231
997, 984, 1021, 1026, 1005. Increase in velocity, but no increase in felt recoil. Again, a bit of smoke. Good round.
.45 230 grain, Kimber Custom .45
Xtreme 230 gr HP
5.7 gr WSF
832, 845, 825, 828. Very mild recoil, Very , very accurate, my new major round.
Bayou 230 RN
5.7 gr WSF
816, 792, 808, 805. Again, mild recoil, a bit of smoke, not quite as accurate.
Conclusions:
On the .40 and .45, learned one must load the round with no edge showing in the transition area from the bullet to the round nose. There was an ever so slight build up of either the coating of lead that prevented absolute cycling of the rounds. More then once I had to push the slide forward to seat the round in the chamber. The OAL was not too long at all.
The 147 though light would work great with a reduced power spring. No special seating length is needed since there is no transition band. Excellent seating on both types of bullets. And again, just a little smoke, certainly much less then lead only rounds.
Only in the .45 did I find a huge difference and that was in accuracy. Keep in mind there are several factors to consider, barrel, velocity, who knows, but the Extreme was far better. To sum it up, for those shooting lead only, the coated bullets are certainly the way to go. Much, much less smoke. Cleaner to load. Did not see any green coloring in the barrel.
Myself, I will stick to Xtremes for a variety of reasons, the biggest is I am a dinosaur and shoot .45 in Limited 10. I know, I know, go to a .40. To me the recoil on a .45 is easier to manage, not near as snappy. I simply have no compelling reason to switch from the data I have gathered. The only real eye opener to me is the superb results from WSF in .45. This was a welcome shock.
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Nebwake, can you list the WSF loads you used for the 155 and 124 rounds? Were the bullets lead, plated, or jacketed?
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I had the same issue last year, replaced my firing pin, springs, even the type of primer.
Mine was the easy fix, high primers was the issue. Doesn't take much, the first strike from the firing pin drives the primer to the proper depth. I will almost bet you can take one of the rounds that shows a light strike and run it through the pistol the round will fire the second time.
Favorite .45ACP bullets for plinking?
in 44/45 Caliber
Posted · Edited by mont1120
I shot a lot of lead bullets in my Kimber .45 and really was tiring of cleaning out streaks of lead fouling in the barrel. I finally listened to the posts here and tried coated bullets. What a difference. 100% cleaner shooting, load really easy, and the cost is great. There are certainly personal ideas on which coated bullet is better, I have settled on the Blue Bullets myself. I tried Bayous but had some sizing issues, but others swear by them.
It will keep lead fouling to zip, keeps the price down, and you will get questioned many times by other shooters. Part of the fun and yet you will be very stylish....lol.lol. Some of them have a peculiar smell to them when shot too.
As a side note for competition at major matches, I always go to 230 grain Montana Gold, these are hard to beat for accuracy and seem to be the preferred bullet by many shooters.