Tactica

I cannot do the Amateur match, family trip out of town... so that option is a bust for me. Otherwise, I'd be in. I'm definitely interested in the Gateway 3-Gun match option that weekend! I'm OK with either option and will differ to the masses with travel booked. Every G3G 3-gun match I've attended has been packed with fun and challenging stages. I'd like to see what you guys can do with a 2-day mini-major event anyway Always great to see and shoot with friends from out of town. Let me know if you need any help. Big fan of G3G past events. If there's anything you need, setup, RO otherwise, happen to assist. Cheers,

Not sure why they didn't post here, but here's what I just received from Misty...

In, looking forward to it.

Barry, sorry to hear / see the ankle. God speed on the mend. + + + Lack of communication about this match is becoming concerning.... when do they admit defeat and start issuing refunds? Anyone close to the inner circle on this know if there's anything set up or even a potential for this event to happen? At some point soon, I have to make a decision about my vacation time, then reservations, etc...

Word on the street is there may be some issues with this match... anyone close to the match director able to get them to post here and let us know what is going on? Many of us have paid and at this point are wondering about accomidations, special ammo requirements, round counts... however, if there is a risk the event is not happening, I would rather know now and cut my losses.

Just sunk in... that was total not per night. Roger that, will start looking around. Guess I'll use the address of the hotel as a place to start looking from... unless anyone has an address of the range to start from. Cheers,

GuildSF4: I just reviewed the Mystery Mountain rules: http://smm3gun.com/Rules/IMA-SMM3G%20Rules%20RB%20Rev14%202012-10-21%20(changes%20in%20red).pdf You're match's rule 2.5.7 is the first time I've noticed "sweeping" specifically addressed in an IMGA based rule set (though I admit, I'm still learning and absorbing variances... I'm sure more matches cover it) Observation - the sweeping clause, in this case, specifically addresses "during a CoF". The list of situations go silent of sweeping outside of CoF. That said, the act is only noted as an example under the main rule 2.5 of "unsafe gun handling". I think this is a very intriguing way to handle this issue as a catch all. It definitely leaves a lot open to interpretation or descretion of the MD. On the other hand, it avoids lengthy / wordsmithing of rules to cover all types of unsafe gun handling. I definitely see advantages.

I hope he sued them.

Jesse / Tyler, Match hotel is <$80 / night. $150 would be double cost. Wife is coming along and wants the privacy of her own room anyway, and that's even more cost. Never been out to this match, so... match hotel might be best option for us. Looks like everyone we are shooting with already has other accommidations. Talked to Greg earlier. He and Carrie are rooming with Chad / Katie already. I didn't want the fouton option at their place.... LOL, so, we went with the hotel. No worries. After I've attended this match once, I'll be able to plan better the next go around... BTW: anyone seen stages yet? How about official squadding posts?

Benelli Chick: got it - thanks for the elaboration - follow-up, where are your competitors doing oil adds and choke changes? While guns are on the bags on ground? Wideerhunter: Excellent, thanks for itemized responses! I agree, don't know how you 'don't' sweep yourself changing chokes, as I noted further down in the thread. Just wondering if the topic has come up elsewhere, and how its handled in other clubs. Perhaps a better question would have been, is "sweeping" an offense at certain times, but not others? Prior to shooting 3-gun, I would have assumed that any time a loaded firearm sweeps an individual, for any reason, that it would have been an actional item worthy of DQ. Change a choke once and you change your opinion quickly. The IMGA rulebook states any time a round is in the firearm, it is deemed loaded. I've heard ROs advise that sweeping oneself with a loaded firearm is a DQ'able offense. The rulebook does not state that sweeping is a DQ, so must be a match rule. Furthermore, I've seen more than one competitor change chokes on a pre-loaded firearm at matche(s), sometimes under an RO's supervision, sometimes not... but the rulebook doesn't seem to state one way or the other. So - fall under Big Boy rules? Offenses that are not being enforced when not under RO supervision? Bad habits / safety violations - that should be stopped in all circumstances? Spectators and newer shooters see the above as an accident waiting to happen. When I read of folks 'accidentally' coming to the line with a round in the chamber from the preload table... I then think, were they allowed to change a choke at the preload table after preloading? In conversations from some of the ROs and newer shooters at local matches recently, these topics in some form or another have come up. I am newer to RO'ing 3-gun matches, so I seek to learn from others more experienced in this sport who have been running successful and safe matches for years. I value your experience and wisdom, I'm just asking questions that were raised. We also have 3 new match directors in the area running 3-gun events. If this thread can help any of them run, or newer ROs like myself administer a safer / better match / stage - or avoid a problem, then its done some good. At minimum, maybe we can all learn something from it. I plan to share it with them as more folks respond. The topics discussed are all rooted in general safety concerns by design. From a rhetorical perspective - are we doing things better / worse than others? How can we do these things better and within our means? Is there a precedent for some of the items discussed? So, before we begin to take action, I thought I'd post here to see what others thoughts were on it. I'm not sure all the topics even warrant action. However, some probably do. Thank you,

For those that have been, Is this a drive to each stage match, or worth bringing a cart? Is the match hotel worth staying at... or does someone have a better recomendation (that still has vacancies?)

RJH / Bagdad: So, are there safe areas between every stage for choke changes? Just wondering logistically how that works. *If* chokes are changed multiple times in a match, say between each or even every other stage... how far are folks walking in your match to get to a safe area to make choke changes? Benelli Chick: Are you only allowing the "on deck" shooter to preload then? Also, what about the 'other' firearms on the pre-load table. Are those other firearms, which are not yet preloaded, allowed to be handled (oil, action manipulated, wiped down, chokes changed, etc - in advance of preloading while on the table in question?) Just trying to understand your protocol a bit more. Sdhunterman: when / where can chokes be changed and oil be added / action manipulated between stages... only in safe area? If so, how many safe areas do you have on the range and where are they positioned relative to the shooting bays? If chokes can be changed and action manipulated and oil added between bays, do you require it only on the gun racks, preloading tables or are competitors generally free to do so at their descretion minding other safe gun handling rules? So far, only a few responders... but preloading seems to vary greatly by club. (en masse under supervision at stage start, one at a time, no supervision, at time of start, on table, at beginning of stage) I hope we continue to get responders. I find this information interesting. The common theme so far seems to be don't touch the guns and no choke changes AFTER pre-loaded. Again, I hope we get more responders to these questions. However, *IF* this is a common habit / protocol / instruction... (well, I'll hold that thought) I see nobdy is addressing the sweeping question. I'm not sure one can reasonably expect to change chokes without sweeping themselves with their own muzzle in some fashion. I also don't really see "sweeping" in the IMGA a rule or issue. However, I'm guessing we have all heard to be mindful of sweeping in one context or another at matches. I'm expecting that sweeping oneself is a DQ'able offense at many matches during the CoF execution by the comeptitor with a loaded firearm. However, IMGA seems to go silent on the topic in general. In context of the aforementioned questions, I'd like to hear some feedback on what, if anything, happens if someone sweeps themselves either before preloading (changing chokes) or after preloading (doing whatever, changing chokes or other if allowed at the club). Thank you,

I'm asking these questions mainly to see how others handle situations that were discussed at some local area matches recently. To put the situations in context, in an outlaw match, based upon IMGA rules, assuming rules are relatively silent on the specific practices of shotgun preloading and choke changing, etc. (All questions relate to shotguns) At your local club, is it customary / permissible... 1) ... to only preload from a designated location, table, rack and/or direction at a specified time by an RO... or, does the RO have a squad face down range and preload at once, then muzzle up and place guns in a mutual location... or utilize some other protocol for preloading? 2)...for a competitor to walk in front of a muzzle while a gun is laying on a preloading table to change a choke before being loaded? 3) ... for a competitor to 'sweep him/her self' while changing a choke, whether on a gun rack, in their hand, or on a table? 4) ...to change chokes on a preload table or gun rack BEFORE a gun has been preloaded? 5) ...to change chokes AFTER the gun has been preloaded? 6) ...to work the action of a non-preloaded gun, say to add oil, wipe debris while gun unloaded on preload table or gun rack at stage? 7) ... preload without an RO observing? Thank you for your responses in advance,

Tyler, Great thread. I've taking the USPSA RO course with Ray Hirst. It was a great experience. His personal wisdom and insight into the sport and national / Area level matches was fantastic. We did shoot a match as an RO squad the following day. I think that was beneficial to those newer to the game and who had never held a timer before... but that said, for the rest, the shooting as an RO squad had little to no benefit. The lecture portion, the instruction portion, personal insight, wisdom of his experience, the testing - that was the value of the class and frankly, a range really was not needed. So outside of a live fire portion of training, if that's warranted, and in lieu of having 'nothing', I wonder if we really need a physical on site / 'in the classroom' kind of training - at least initially for this? Considering this is 2013, we have the interwebs and all... anyone thought about doing an online training... webinar type of course? Just throwing it out there. Cheers,

I called Misty on above questions. She said the new rules will be posted soon, but will be close to last year. The stages and round requirement / count minimums, etc are not yet finalized. I politely reminded that due to ammo availability, it would be convenient to have the info sooner rather than later - she acknowledged and said they are working on it. Misty said they are hoping to have all of this information complete and posted on the website by the end of July. http://www.forconquest.com/O3GC_main.html Cheers,

I'd like to see it as well.

I think this is an interesting idea, but it conflicts with a family trip we have planned. I'll be interested to hear about the success of the match and looking forward to any videos post match.

boomfab: I would suggest you call Misty. You'll get a quick response that way. Misty Sadler Match Administrator Phone: (816-678-2941) Good luck,

I need a plane and limitless resources... Good luck gents,

Are stage descriptions for this match available for this match yet... if not, when are they planned to be available? The link for the rules on the site says 2012 rules... will rules be updated yet for 2013 match? Anyone know what the longest rifle shots will be on this match? What about round requirements / limitations for shotgun (buck, bird and slug?) What are the minimum round counts for rifle, shotgun and pistol for this match? Thank you,

Here's some video from my attempt at day 1. I spent more time worrying about our squad, stage briefings, resolving questions, etc than shooting, but I still had great fun on each. Hopefully you can get a feel for what some of these stages looked like. If you've never been to the Sparta World Shooting Complex, put it on your must see match list... if not for this match, then another major in the future. It's one of IL's best kept secrets for competition shooters. PS - the USPSA IL Sectional will be held at this range in late August: http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-match-details.php?indx=796 PSS - Every month for the next 4 (Aug, Sept, Oct & Nov) Gateway 3-Gun is hosting their monthly 3-gun match out at this range on the Saturday of the first weekend of the month. 6 stages, $40.00, roaming ROs, plaques to top finishers, and random door prize drawing for gun. Keep an eye on G3G's facebook page for more info on each as they post online registration information: https://www.facebook.com/Gateway3Gun

Great vid Roxymajor. Check out 5:38 for the spider stage. Glad someone got that spider prop on video! Nice job on that stage too BTW. Thanks for posting Sir,

I helped set up for two days the week before. My wife assited with registration Friday night and Sat morning from 6-? I RO'd a squad and my wife again graciously helped out with squad mom duties for two days while we shot. I live just over an hour away from the range so we made that drive multiple times that week and weekend. Only today, the Thursday after the match is over, do I start to feel less than sore! However, for the opportunity to shoot this match again, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to throw my hat in the ring and help out so all of us can shoot this match again next year. Jesse's right. This match is that fun. I have full confidence in Jeremy and Aaron. They will get the 1st year bugs worked out. I've had the pleasure of shooting many of their local monthly regional 3-gun matches. These guys do a great job and and are setting a bar worthy of the Sparta World Shooting Complex's name to live up to. I'm already looking forward to their next major event. I'm happy to do whatever I can for them. Cheers, Rob Malin

BTW: Anyone else notice the Helicopter at the range on the first day in the AM by the trap / skeet stages? Not sure what that was all about, but it looked like it was going to land right in the middle of the road between stage 19 and stage 3.

You're not alone in the bumps, bruises and blisters. It was great to shoot with you and squad 10. I am exhausted today, but have some fantastic memories. Luckily, the little woman is taking good care of us and getting me back into shape for the weekend local matches. Can't thank her enough for helping out with scores this past weekend too. That was one less thing the rest of us had to mess with. For this nearly 39 year old, that was the single most physically challenging 2-day test I've had in quite some time. However, I can't wait for next year! Aaron and Jeremy, you set the bar high for your first match of this format. 20-stages in 2 days across that much realestate was an amazing feat to pull off, physically and logistically. Huge thanks for pulling out all the stops for one heck of a shotgun challenge. I cannot think of a skill that wasn't put to task... and you thought of plenty I never tested... (clays... oh, how I've never shot any of those games, very humbling), charcoal chucking comes to mind... and the SPIDER target was daunting but I ran that stage rather well and enjoyed shooting it - hated resetting it. (Tell me someone has video to post of that thing in action!) Final thought - complimentary adult beverages as post match tradition during awards... you know, traditions and all... just sayin... OK, serious suggestions will be sent off line. Great match guys, and what a big success for the first event of it's kind in the midwest. You really put the Sparta Facility to task and shed some light on what that place is capable of. Nicely done.