Gun Geek
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Posts posted by Gun Geek
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The velocity difference is not that big of a surprise. Lead bullets are almost always faster than copper (plated or jacketed), lead is a better lubricant, and probably also melts a little at the temp and pressures to which we subject it.
The surprise is in the variability of the plated bullets. I have messed with coated and plated bullets and fast powders and sometimes they don't work well together. I think fast powders blow the plating/coating off the bullet more than slower powders. This might explain the variability.
Crimp is also critical on plated bullets. With most crimp dies, crimp is affected by case length (longer cases get crimped more), so some of what you saw could be from using mixed brass and the resulting crimp issues. You might try using the same headstamp and (god help you) trimming the cases, and being very careful on how the crimp die is set. Then see if the SD goes down.
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Hi again everyone,
Just thinking ahead to the day that I can buy a S & W 625 in .45 ACP and shoot moon clips in IDPA's ESR.
I'm currently using a Lee Factory Crimp Die as the last station in my 550 to feed a 1911.
Do I need a different style of crimp to keep a 625 going?
Maybe it won't matter because they'll be headspacing off the moon clips?
Thanks,
Brad
Headspace won't be an issue.
Possible issue is that recoil can cause the bullets to move out. In the extreme, the bullet lodges in the gap between the front of the cylinder and the frame, jamming the whole mess. I know this can happen with 44mags (don't ask), but my guess would be that with a 45ACP, especially at the not-so-hot 165000pf, it wouldn't be a problem.
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I run 147gn Masterblasters through both a 17 and a 34 with stock barrels.
No problems with leading.
The only problem I had as using Titegroup to push the pills. TG is too fast for MBs - strips the cladding, makes the bullet tumble.
I use HS-6 and all is well.
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I just started loading some ammo on my SDB. It was set up in 10mm, and I switched it over to .45. Right away I started having problems. When setting the bullet, it would crush the case. I hadn't had much of a flare on the mouth of the case, so I adjusted that. Still having a problem. I am using a new bullet. Thought maybe they were oversized. But my calipers showed them consistantly just over .451". I tried a different bullet, that had been loading fine just last week. Same problem.
I finally had a brain fart and pulled the toolhead off. I had put the crimp die in the seat die position. I swapped them out and all is happy again.
Thought I'd share my brain fade.
Takes a strong man to admit those kind of mistakes.
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Bought an advantage from glockmiester a month ago
Got about 500 rds through it - on my 34 bottom.
RUNS GREAT. Very fast
I got the LE version 'cause it looks like a regluar glock.
I'm using it for practice and the occasional steel match.
BTW - advantage says DO NOT DRYFIRE, so if you're doing dry drills, convert back to the glock top
My experience with other conversions has been positive. I have a kimber conversion that I run on a kimber and a ciener for my bushy M4 AR. I think conversions are THE thing for practice - same trigger, similar weight, same controls, cheap, no blast. The kimber and the ciener are very accurate. I haven't sandbagged the advantage yet. Might do that this weekend.
I shoot the piss out of the ciener and the kimber. I fully intend to do that with the advantage.
Best all around ammo I've found is Remington Thunderbolt. It seems to be a little dirty, but it has plenty of snap to work the actions. Works all of the above plus a Walther P22 which is notoriously fussy. Cost is about $2.10 per hundred. I used some Wolf match stuff and shot touching groups off a bag with the kimber at 25. The thounderbolt opened up to about 3/4"
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Not to to try to simplify this, but how about the 05RB (as in 2005 Rule Book).
I know, I know, I'm starting trouble. Sorry.
- John
TRB
The Rule Book
KISS
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Ouch!
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I have just bought some 200 gr. Lead round nose bullets (.452) to shoot out of my 5 inch 1911. I cannot find any reloading data. All the information I Have is for a 200 gr. SWC. I need an overall length for the round nose bullet and a load to make major power factor. Does anyone know where to find this information? Does anyone have the information?
4.3 - 4.5gn of Clays
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I've just started loading 223 and 308 with a military surplus powder close to the size and shape of 4895. In the past I used blc-2 and had no problems. The loads I use are close to compressed powder loads. I have to take the cases out of the shell holder after priming, charge the case in a seperate powder measure, then return them to the shell plate to continue the reloading process. The reason I have to do this is because after dropping the powder charge I have to tap on the side of the case 8 or10 times to settle the powder so it is below the mouth of the case. Otherwise I end up with a couple of grains of powder spilled out of the case. Anyone have an idea how I can avoid the spillage problem?
Usiing a 650? Clip some coils off of the shell plate detent ball spring. I've found that you can actually go quite "mushy" with that and the press still works. Go slow and smooooooth. Still faster than a single stage or removing and tapping.
Clipping coils will make the press malfuction if you go faster (this I know from experience), so if you want to speed up (say to load pistol rounds) you might have to switch springs.
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I am having trouble getting my son to stop leaving his finger on the trigger while he is doing reloads. Have any of you had to work on this problem with a junior shooter? Any suggestions would really be appreciated.
You can use the Catholic Nun approach - whack him with a yardstick when he does it. Continue the beatings until morale improves.
Actually, I think the dry drills and the stopping/resetting will help lots. I agree with letting him get DQ'd at a match. Rough as it is, embarrasment is often a good motivator when correctly applied (not by you yelling at him, but by the rules of the game pinching a little.)
Any of this is better than an ND.
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Gun Geek,
So, no TG with 147gr Masterblasters?
I'll be trying something else then.
Didn't work at all for me - loaded up the rifling in both my glock (34) and my Beretta 92. Both guns key-holed after 10 rounds.
MB guys say TG is way too fast for the 9mm 147s. Clays (which is fast) works great in 45. I tried Clays in the 9mm, but it built pressure too fast - I got flat primers before I made 125000pf so I quit (not wanting to blow up my glock). HS-6 works great.
Been shooting the 147s for a while now (about 5000 rounds) and I really like them - soft shooting, takes down steel, no splatter/jackets coming back. One of my buddies who is a religious Wolf shooter (religiously cheap) is considering handloading because he doesn't want to buy factory 147s!!!
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...I'll be driving over to the Dillon store.
Azjogol
Now I am truly jealous!!!
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Interesting, it looks like a fast impulse powder like Bullseye will accelerate the bullet suddenly causing it to either not grip the rifling properly or wipe the coating onto the forcing cone. At least that's how it seems to me. A slower powder more gently "pushes" the bullet into the barrel and upsets the base just enough to grip the rifling so it doesn't skid down the barrel and leave lead deposits.
I was looking at trying the 200gr in my 21C. Is the 4.3gr of Clays anything like a high pressure load and what type of velocity with that combo?
The coating does come off with the faster powders and it stays in your barrel. I've been dying to shoot one of these into some water and see what condition the coating is in, but I haven't had the opportunity.
Out of the g36 I get about 820 fps (pf of 164000 which doesn't quite make it), but out of a 5" 1911, same load gets about 860 (172000pf). This is not a real high pressure load. I occasionally see a hint of primer flattening.
Use the RN 200 gn. My 36 doesn't feed the regular SWC profile very well.
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I read the forum guidelines, and it sounded like a post about defensive matters every once in a while would be tolerated.
My intent wasn't really to start a defensive shooting thread. It was more out of curiosity: "What was the rational behind setting a PF floor at this level? Is there more to it than just putting everyone on the same level?"
Thanks for your input and the link.
I think you're well with-in bounds to ask this question. The answer is that the concept of pf was instituted to put everyone on a level playing field. The exact value of the pf is picked to model typical loads.
The 125 and 165 are just a hair lower than typical factory handgun loads. So by setting the parameters here, they insure that handloaders and guys buying factory are shooting similar stuff. The idea is that there is no big competitive advantage in handloading, so you don't have an "equipment race".
If you set the numbers higher, then only certian brands of ammo will make the number. Those will likely be higher priced, and may not be widely available (another race).
You might make an argument that the "defensive" part of IDPA would require higher PFs, but that would make the sport difficult and expensive to get into.
It is obvious that higher volocity rounds will likely do more damage in a shootout, but the practical implications in the game make them unreasonable to use in IDPA. IDPA makes several trade-offs to make the game more doable at the expense of rigid "correctness"
For example. I actually like to carry crossdraw (you can get to it with both hands) - but for saftey reasons, we don't do that in IDPA. Similar idea.
Are 125 and 165 in touch with reality? Depends on your reality, but they cover the most practical situations. ("I reject your reality and substitute my own")
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Any word on how these perfom in a Glock?
I use MBs in Glocks - no problem.
200gn 45s through a 36 (though not many of these, the 36 is a handful). 4.3 gns of Clays
147gn 9mm through a 34. I used TG and it stripped the coating, leaded the barrel and the bullets tumbled, i.e. key holed. Same results from a Beretta 92. The MB folks said TG was way too fast. Ramshot not readily available here, but HS-6 is close in a burn rate chart so I switched. Works fine.
I also use the 200gn RN and SWC over 4.3 gn of Clays though 1911s for USPSA and Steel. 10K and counting!
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That clip is a standard clip you can get at just about any hardware or maybe autoparts store.
Your buddy that has all the tools will have the pliers necessary to open the ring a little so it will slide into the grove.
Heck, get the part, take the thing to any auto mechanic. 10s operation
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Thanks guys i have tried the 230gr FMJ with 4.0 gr clays very smooth,but what looks like lots of flash.
I noticed this too. Indoors Clays produces a bluish white flash with sparks. It took just a little getting used to, then it was no problem.
Observers like it if I go nuts with a split - two flashes together!
I don't think I'd use Clays if doing very low light things.
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I've heard it said (and I agree with it) that the combo seat/crimp die is the work of the devil.
I teach reloading and some of my students insist on starting on a single stage, and they use a combo die because that what RCBS sells. Setting up that die leads to more frustration and more problems than anything else.
If the person is loading in a caliber that I have, I hand them my 2 die set (seater and Lee FCD). First thing that happens is that the person starts to enjoy the situation because they don't feel like an idiot. 2nd thing is that they usually want to go to some type of progressive or turret because they understand that most if the time involved in a single stage is manipulating each round 4 or 5 times.
Get a Dillon seater and a Lee FCD, it will change your life.
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In addition to the above, I use a dry lube on all the plastic/metal interfaces - primer arm, casefeed camming pin, case insert slide, indexer block. I use silicone or teflon, which you can get cheap at an auto parts store along with your brake cleaner
Coupla squirts on the surfaces, let it dry - smooth as silk, no powder sticking
Calhunter's quote is from page 45 of the manual (v 6.1) - the wonders of the search feature in adobe
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Thanks, any idea why many are suggesting I go with a lighter bullet? Seems to be lots of advice (from the guys at the range who shoot LIM 10 45) saying 185 or 200 JHP.Tons of info on this....
230gr.FMJ
3.8 CLAYS ( Straight Clays, not Universal Clays )
Clean burning, makes major, feels soft.
HERE'S what Rob Leatham has to say about light-fast vs heavy-slow.
BTW, I need 4 grains Clays to make major in my gun.
Ed
185s and 200s have been the gamer bullets for a long time. I use 200gn coated (Masterblasters) over 4.3gn of clays. Soft but just a little snap to cycle the gun fully. I use SWCs (I like big holes). Makes 170pf
I think the JHP stuff started with the 40 guys loading long. Since the bullet is hollowed out, it had to be a little longer. The extra length helps with gun function and allows you to safely put in more powder to make major. I'm not a 40 shooter - did I get this right?
BTW:
I experimented with this heavy bullet stuff way out there. I found some big honkers (300gn made for 45 colt) and tried them. Worked great, but I could SEE the bullet and found it to be very distracting. Thing was going about 550fps. Scared everybody watching - ROs don't like it at all. It also moved my POI up by 2" at 10yds
I went back to more conventional bullets as a compromise - the big ones were cast so they had a lube ring (smoke), distracted me, gave others the creeps, and it is unsafe on steel (tends to bounce back). I think you need to stay above 650 fps or bullets stay together and come back.
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I get 172 pf with 3.7-3.8 of Clays with a 230 cast bullet. It takes 4 grains to get to 170 pf with a fmj.
Ron,
I am also running 230 lrn over a charge of Clays. i am shooting pins indoors (no pf requirement), so came down to the min load (3.5 grains) and it seems like my accuracy just went to he^^. POI shifted about 3 to 4 inches high at 25 yards. Did you ever notice this problem with Clays, or is it just me? You ever shoot in Aurora? I live in Denver metro and belonged to AGC for about 6 years. Thanks.
Husker (in colorado)
You might be pushing the bullet slow enough that the muzzle begins to rise (from recoil) before the bullet leaves the barrel. This is a well known consequence of pushing big bullets slow.
Did the group size open up, or just the POI change. If group size didn't change, I'd guess it was the issue above. If group size changed, I'd guess it was a problem with the Clays not getting hot enough / under enough pressure to burn the same every time.
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From your post it sounds like this problem just started happening - so something has changed?
Make sure the gage is clean both rust and oil will cause problems. Make sure your sizing die is all the way down (just kiss the shell plate)
Do they go partially in and then stop or do they drag as soon as you put them in the gage?
Could be a bulge - this isn't glock brass is it?
I crimp mine down to .470 and use a Lee FCD - no problems chambering in 10K rounds.
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If you've got a tripod already laying around, consider ordering the (sold separately) rail for the skyscreens. If no tripod, you could mount the sensors to a hunk of wood, and place that on top of a barrel or something. As far as not shooting your skyscreens goes, set up a target as an aiming point, and make sure before you pull the trigger that the skyscreens are level and straight......
BTW, I concur on the Mk. IV......
I tape a target to the screens. I've tried both in front (so I don't see the screens) and in back (so I focus through the screens). Both work well. I've used the target in front of the screen when shooting through my chronograph 100yds down range with a rifle. This is a great way to get "real" BC figures for a bullet. You get the MV, then the down range figure and most software will calculate an actual BC.
As Nik said, make sure the screens are level and straight, and get them high enough (or you get low enough) so the bullet passes straight through. It is real easy to get them low, which means the bullet is going at a downward angle. That makes it easy to shoot the screen.
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I can confirm that the rules posted on the above link are the correct rules.
Gary:
I was surprised to see this line in the rules:
"Pistols produced with attachment points for external lights or optics are not permitted."
This seems to refer to the production models with weaver rails on the dust cover. What's the reasoning behind this?
IDPA allows them, but they're not something one would typically carry. I'd think USPSA, not being concerned with concealibility, would have no problem.
Lee Fcd
in 44/45 Caliber
Posted
Yep a little of this is normal, and is about the only complaint I have with the FCD.
I use One Shot on the cases and at the start of each loading session, I spray some on a Q-tip and coat the inside of both the sizing die and the FCD.
Also, Lee is notorious for sloppy (or non-existient) clean-up after production of the dies. Take it apart and make sure there are no burrs or shavings ('bout half my FCDs in various calibers came out of the box this way).
Don't back the die out too far - the crimp won't be right and the ammo may not function well.