Gun Geek
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NO mags loaded to more than 10 rds for any division
For IDPA
Option 1 is NOT Legal. Springfield gives the weight as 42 oz. Don't know if this includes a mag, but IDPA rules are that it must weigh <41 OZ WITH a mag, so this thing is too heavy. See page 23 of the book
Option 2 might play in all three divisions, but you must load 7 or 8 rds in CDP.
For USPSA:
Option 1 - Lim10 (you'll need at least 4 mags, 6 would be better), or the new single stack division (though I might be wrong here) [Oh yea, thanks Chucks - can't shoot my Kimber TLE/RL either, Duh]
Option 2 - Production, though again, the others will be shooting lighter loads (please refine, USPSA range lawyers)
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I've had ZERO problems with 4.3 gn of Clays under Masterblaster .45 200gn SWCs. I'm shooting these from stock Kimber barrels. I've gone 500 - 700 rounds w/o cleaning the barrel (and even then it was just a "precaution" the Clays was so clean, I didn't really feel like I had to clean it).
I did have similar problems with the 147gn 9mm bullet over Titegroup - leading then keyholing. The solution was as mentioned above - a slower powder (HS-6).
Would be interesting to know if the Precision version doesn't like fast powders.
What kind of launcher are you using?
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I have been a fan of their 185 tc in 40 cal, but apparently they no longer offer this configuration ( maybe after Xmas?) and now they offer the 185 rnfp instead. Would there need to be any change in powder wt. or oal to get the same pf?
You probably have to re-work the load. There are lots of variables like bearing surface area, actual bullet length, tolerances in the new mould (bullet diameter) etc that make it impossible to predict the change.
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Hello,
I am new to loading rifle ammo so please forgive my lack of knowledge. I am loading 110 grain jacketed round nose. I have looked in my 48th Lyman manual and have loaded 12.0 grains of 2400 alliant powder. I have a couple of questions. The container says it is magnum handgun powder. Is this correct for my rifle ? My other question is that the case seems about 3/4 "full" of powder. Is this acceptable. I load 45acp and 38 special and those cases are no where near "full". I also realize that they use different powder and are pistol not rifle. Thanks for your help
Phil:
The other thread does have lots of good info (I wrote pat of it
)But you have some specific questions. If your manual gives that load (12.0 gn of alliant 2400) AND CAN FIND A SECOND SOURCE, then I wouldn't worry too much about it. However, as always start low and work up. Look for pressure signs and watch how the gun functions. If 12.0 is the rec'd starting point, go to 11.4 (5% off). If 12.0 is anything but the start go down 10%. BTW, my Speer #13 gives 10.0 gns of 2400 as a start and 12.0 gns as a MAX load
Make sure the load in the book says it is for the rifle version of the 30 Carbine cartridge. My Speer gives loads a little lighter for the pistol version.
Don't worry at all about the % of case fill. In the hyper critical world ultra accurate rifle shooting there are reasons that you want a particular factor, but for this stuff, it is not an issue. The difference between the fill % of the 45 and the fill of the carbine means nothing (well OK, someone will come up with something, but we are talking gnat's eyeballs).
A Magnum Handgun Powder is about right for the 30 Carbine. What makes it "Magnum" is that it is a little slower than other handgun powders. In general rilfle powders are slower than handgun powders, but there are overlaps.
What you need to be careful of on the M1 Carbine rifle is that the timing is set-up (placement of the gas port, spring rate) for a particular speed range of powders. Too fast and there is not enough pressure on the piston to operate the action, too slow and there can be too much pressure and it can damage the action. This is a big deal in M1 Garands - you can break the op rod. It won't be that dramatic in the Carbine but it will slam things hard and hurt your baby.
Gotta be careful reloading for these battle rifles - Carbine, M1 Garand, M1A, they are fussy about powder speed. Stick to published loads until your are a wizard.
I vote for 110, but 2400 works if you've already bought 8 lbs of it.
Hope this helps!
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I know primers are dangerous, but when you load only 45 ACP and have ten or so primers left over, do you leave them in feeder or work them out? Also, do you load your pickup tubes in advance and store them for later use [being careful of course].
Yes I leave primers, and powder, and cases, etc in my press. But, I don't have to worry about little hands messing with things.
No I don't load primers tubes and leave them setting around. Primers in tubes can be a little touchy. I did load 3 or 4 tubes at the start of a session and have them hanging on the peg board behind the press. Since I got an RF100 as a gift, I never load more than one tube ever.
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Sorry, I shot them all up out of another gun.
Kevin C.
uhhhhhhh,
No silly, the ones you dug out of the hill. I could get plenty of pics of unfired Berry's Bullets
With another brand of plated bullet I had a similar problem. These flat nosed bullets would make a star patterned hole on the targets. I dug them out of a new sand berm and confirmed that the plating had peeled in strips back to the bearing surface of the bullets. This only happened with a certain brand of OEM barrel which, in my personal experience (read that as two barrels) were on the low side on bore diameter. Accuracy, as you might imagine, was poor out of those barrels, but fine out of other guns where this peeling back didn't occur.
fwiw,
kevin c.
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Get Matt burketts IDPA DVD first. It covers the basics.
x200000000000
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Also, if you use a "Barney mag" which you place in a pocket, if it has any remaining rounds in it, it could be considered a spare magazine and would not be considered legal....So by principle, even an empty Barney mag, while convenient, does not fully follow the rules.
I don't really see the principle. The rule is intended to limit the shooter to the magazine in the gun and two spares during a course of fire. If you have a Barney mag in your pocket, that is used for nothing but chamber loading at the beginning of the stage, who cares? I'm all for following rules. Taking an excruciatingly literal interpretation of the rules to the point of absurdity, on the other hand....
Hmmm
I think a true literal reading of the rule does not limit the number of magazines carried. It limits the number used in the CoF to 2 (in addition to the initial one in the gun) and it limits to 2 the number that can at anytime be carried on the belt. That's all it says
If u have 2 mags on your belt and 5 in those big ass pockets on your 5.11 pants, and choose to reload from the pooket, fine, just don't use more than 2.
Barney is legal, and can be used, as long as you only use 3 total in the CoF. Charging the gun before the buzzer (and handling a 4th mag) does not viloate the spirit or letter of the rule.
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Since the initial 3 targets are "out of the problem" and the competiitor is fully behind cover (as it relates to T4-5 ) using the partition separating the 2 target arrays , the prerequisite to use cover is satisfied.
Think "slicing the pie". After shooting T1, you edge out from cover further, exposing yourself to T1 in order to see T2. If the answer to the original question is that you cannot remain exposed to T1 through T3 after neutralizing them, then you cannot slice the pie anymore. The quote above is the only sensible interpretation.
Completely agree.
However, I must say that this is NOT how it often plays at matches. I am the owner of 2 PEs that cost me a division/class win at a major match. I polietly protested, using the same argument as about (pie slicing) and the MD agreed that the rule book was vague. But, I was overruled on the grounds that the SO had been calling that way all day, and it was the same for everyone (i.e. the issue was sidestepped so they wouldn't have to throw out the stage).
Some may say this a stage design issue. Perhaps. But the pie discussion is right on.
This is clearly an outage in the rulebook (don't take this as a general slam of the book).
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I didn't ever bother chamfering, but I use a Redding straight-line bullet seater. Without it I was getting nasty crushed cases once in a while with boat-tail bullets, and every tenth case with flatbase. After I switched, I got none.
Same here. Use a boattail and a good seater and you'll get 0 problems with the cases or with shaving the jacket.
I also make sure the cases get a little lube in the neck (necessary to keep the expander ball from pulling the neck up from the shoulder). The lube also helps keep the bullet from crushing the case, and it makes it go down straighter, so it doesn't shave on an edge. Since you are doing this in 2 steps and (I'm assuming) cleaning the lube off between steps, you might want to re-lube the inside of the necks. This is a maybe - you'll just have to try it.
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With another brand of plated bullet I had a similar problem. These flat nosed bullets would make a star patterned hole on the targets. I dug them out of a new sand berm and confirmed that the plating had peeled in strips back to the bearing surface of the bullets. This only happened with a certain brand of OEM barrel which, in my personal experience (read that as two barrels) were on the low side on bore diameter. Accuracy, as you might imagine, was poor out of those barrels, but fine out of other guns where this peeling back didn't occur.
fwiw,
kevin c.
Kevin:
Do you still have any of these bullets? Love to see pics. If you don't have a cam, send them to me and I'll photo and return them.
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Your bullet needs calibrating using a target with real scoring borders. It's suppose to do that only when it's near the line.
That's what I was thinking this is acutally a feature.
They should call them Hi-Skor and charge more.
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Alex:
You're in the right place.
If the up front investment is not that big of a problem, (i.e. $1,000 - $1,200 bucks by the time you get all the stuff) then a 650 is the thing. If you are on a tight budget, look at the SDB (my guess is about $600 - $800 for the whole schmeer). Those prices include the most of the cool stuff you'll want.
Got to X10 Travis' comment about the auto index feature. The stuff about starting with a basic (read single stage) press is crap, especially for pistol ammo. You will be BONKERS after about a week if you have a single stage, and you won't have much ammo either. I might buy that advice match grade rifle ammo, but that's really more of a volume discussion.
The 650 in general is a bigger intial investment ($$ and time), but will be much faster and flexible later on. 2 hours per week would net you 1500 rds no problem. Unless you are shooting that much, you should be ok. The SDB will never be able to load rifle ammo, so if you get into 3-gun, you won't be able to make ammo for your rifle. Also the cse feeder (not available on the SDB) saves lots of time.
Reloading will be worth it for 45, and maybe 40. It is marginally worth it for 9. If you are OK with cheap factory 9mm (115gn or 125gn at 140 pf) it won't be worth it. If you want to shoot a little more special load (i.e. light recoil or "major 9") you will come out ahead. My reloads cost between $3.75 and $4.50 per 50 depending on the choice of brass, bullets, etc, as well as the occasional well timed volume purchase or sale. That cost is about the same no matter what the caliber is. You can buy 9mm for this, but forget it on 40 & 45.
Order a 650 and trimmings from Brain and get started!
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Steve:
It sounds like the Insert Slide needs some adjustment. This is the thing that pushes the case into the shell plate.
It is very easy to adjust the press so that this does not push far enough in. Bending decapping pins is a sure sign that the case is not correctly positioned.
There is some instruction on page 39 of the manual. Page 52 and 53 have exploded dagrams of the stuff you need to mess with.
Here's a quick overview:
1) Put live primers into the feed system.
2) Put a shell in to the plate at station 1, raise the ram, decap and size that case.
3) Cycle the press so that the case moves over to station 2 (don't seat the primer yet)
4) Put another case into station 1, make sure it is fully inserted
5) Now push the handle forward so that the primer is seated into the case at station 2 - hold the handle forward.
6) Adjust the camming pin so that the slide just touches the case in station 1. To do this, back the pin out so that the slide rests completey against the case (not the pin). There will be a slight gap between the pin and the cam.
7) Run the pin down so that it just pushes the slide away from the case. Ideally you want the slide just touching the case, but you don't want it pushing too hard because the case will be cocked a little and can hang on the mouth of the sizing die (usually a crushed case).
The problem is that people (uhh me) adjust the slide with out primers in the system. The handle can go forward (and the ram move) slightly farther. The primer stops this movement a little short and so the cases don't go all the way into the plate.
Hope this helps
Geek
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I'm up to about 10,000 rds of 4.3gns of Clays under a 200gn SWC from Masterblaster. Makes 130pf. 2 different Kimbers are the launchers - one an alloy frame has about 6000rds and the other a big old steel frame witha light rail (TLE/RL) has about 4000. I run 12lb springs with shok-buffs in both. I am also fooling around with some real heavy 45LC bullets (250gns). Very soft recoil, but I can see them fly so they are a little distracting.
0 problems. Hell, I don't even clean them very much, Clays burns very clean.
I surprised you've had metering problems. I've found Clays to meter very accurately. I've done some insane tests - groups of 25 charges, weigh & average. I get numbers between 4.285 and 4.33. These numbers always show as 4.3 on my Dillon e-scale.
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That "start with a single stage" stuff is a like saying you have to start driving a car with a manual transmission, no power steering, and no pwr brakes. You'll certianly get a better understanding of the principles.
I think one of the other guys said it - you can put just one die in the 550 and use it like a single stage. It is probably a pretty good idea to load about 100 rounds this way - watching what each die does to the case. However, after that first 100, you'll likely never do it again.
One thing I think newbies struggle with is the combo seater/crimp die. Adjusting one of these is a real PIA. If you haven't bought dies yet, get a set of dillon dies. The seater & crimper are separate, and much easier to setup. Also the wider mouth makes them a little smoother.
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OK, I'm officially "done moving" now, because I have my loading bench up and running.
In a masterstroke of negotiating prowess, I managed to carve out *half* of the garage at the new house for "my hobbies". So... I *finally* built a workbench with enough space to work on things like rifles...
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/b_g_gary/det...5df.jpg&.src=ph
Workbench is 3/4" ply on 2.6 legs, lagged to garage-wall studs. If an earthquake starts to rattle the place, I'm heading under the workbench ;-)
...and have my 650 set up at the other end.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/b_g_gary/det...e18.jpg&.src=ph
Haven't fully unpacked and organized things, but... this goes a long way towards making it feel like "home"
Bruce
Very squared away - nice job
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Why can't they just annodize brass of different calibers different colors, you know like the Mag flash lights you see at Lowe's or Home Depot? That would be sweet!
Easy, $$$$. Costs more to anodize and only a very small percent of the market cares about identifying the caliber of the brass after it has been fired. No return for the extra cost.
Could it be that Glock wanted to leave a legacy behind and have their very own caliber named after themselves, mmmnn.....kinda like Ruger?Sure:
45 ACP Automatic Colt Pistol
40S&W Smith & Wesson
Remington 223
308 Winchester
338 Weatherby
Everyone had it but Glock
Ever notice that glock pistols NEVER have the coorect name of the cartidge? 45 ACP is 45 Auto, 40 S&W is just 40 or 40 Auto (forgot the detail, but I've confirmed it).
It is all about marketing...
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What is a better combination to meet or barely exceed the 125 Power Floor for 9mm, heavier bullet putt putting along or a lighter bullet zipping along with respect to recoil, muzzle flip, getting sights back on target?
Thanks,
Chills
I generally prefer a heavy bullet fast powder combo, and a 9mm is no exception. You'll like it a lot more if you get some lighter springs - the slide will work faster and you'll feel even less recoil.
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With an IPSC dominated mind, I am getting frustrated at all the procedurals and mistakes I'm making.
My 2 cents on this thing-
You guys are covering the rules well, so let's talk about why the rules are what they are. From my observation of IPSC/USPSA shooters crossing to IDPA, they miss the basic intent. Their mindset (because it is the right one in IPSC) is faster is better.
The sport is about practicing skills and techniques required for self defense with a pistol. The fastest way to engage a CoF will not necessarily be the safest/most likely to leave you as the last man standing. The rules are there to reward/penalize the shooter for doing things per the founder's view of self defense. Not everyone shares the same perspective, so there are disagreements, but the logic is pretty clear. Safety and avoiding an equipment race (i.e force everyone to have hi-cap mags or a gun that can handle hicaps) are the other reason for the rules. This usually frosts IPSC shooters (especially if they shoot open), but it is a key principle of the sport. The idea is to level the playing field as much as is reasonable so that scores are not tied to $$ spent on equipment.
On the downloading - It is accepted practice for a stage designer to break certian "rules" to create a particular condition. A prime example is requiring downloaded a downloaded mag to force a slide lock at a praticular point. The idea is that the stage tests a particular gun handling or decision making skill. Remember that the classifier actually does this. Also in the classifier I routinely use (and as an SO encourage other competitors) high-cap mags stuffed full. It is limited vickers, and there is absolutely no advantage to the shooter to have more rounds. In fact it makes the classifer much faster if you don't have to keep stuffing mags. This is technically against the rules, but it is practical, and we don't penalize a shooter who doesn't have high caps. All my mags are high cap glock mags loaded to 10 or 11 rds.
If a competitor did purposefully download (or upload) a mag to gain an advantage, I would asses a FTDR. How do I know it was purposeful? If they got an advantage - better place to reload, etc.
Keep that "defensive" perspective in mind and the IDPA rules make decent sense. you don't have to agree, but you'll understand.
Hope this helps.
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From: James Yeager [mailto:JamesYeager@TacticalResponse.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:24 AM
To: JamesYeager@TacticalResponse.com
Subject: Press Release - Civilian Contractor DVD set
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Phone: 731-676-2041
JamesYeager@TacticalResponse.com
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Yeah, my understanding of the case to chamber seal was a gas seal only, no mechanical grip. This is part of the reason head space is so impotant - the cartidge doesn't slide back and forth and slap the breach face, and the cartridge is held in the right position in the chamber (i.e. the neck is not in a loose part of the chamber where it could bulge)
Lubes should not make any diff for that.
Gas blowing back (especially in a rifle) is not a good thing for the shooter, and it dirties the action PDQ.
Eric, I have a loading session in my near future, I will try the silicone approach and see what happens.
WD 40 is good to loosen rusty stuff and coating things like dies & case gages, calipers etc to protect from rust. I don't use it as a lube for anything. Actually it seems to behave more like a solvent than a lube - it is also good for cleaning dirty grease off of stuff.
From the WD 40 website (http://www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html):
"In 1953, a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the aerospace industry, in a small lab in San Diego, California.
It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today."
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You stumbled on an interesting idea here.
I've taught several reloading classed (NRA says I know how).
I tell my students to make a couple of squibs on purpose so they know what they are getting themslves into when it happens. I had the luxury of teaching the class in a class with a firing range and we took one of my guns ( a tough as nails ruger red hawk 44 mag) and fired a squib, then pushed the bullet back out through the back of the barrel.
Moral of the story - if your're a hand loader, you'll likely have a squib at some point - make a few on purpose and try them out so you'll recognize it for what it is.
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ALWAYS MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS IN THE RIGHT HOLES.
Aint that the truth!
)
Single Stack Division
in USPSA/IPSC Shooting
Posted
Will replacing the sight on your trojan actually improve your shooting?
Kimber Custom Tactical full size
12lb & 17lb springs
Gun Geek special trigger job (1.25lbs very little creep)
Dawson 0.090 FO front sight
Stock Kimber rear sight
Masterblaster 200gn SWC over 4.3 gn of Clays (168pf)
Ready Tactical Kydex paddle holster and mag carriers
Same rig I shoot for IDPA when I shoot CDP