BritinUSA
-
Posts
7,650 -
Joined
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by BritinUSA
-
-
I understand what you are saying, but the point remains the same. The division was growing, and they had no significant data to make any changes.
They should have left the division alone for 2 straight seasons before determining a course of action.
Ideally, they would have also used the existing Production Ruleset that was originally proposed.
-
398 activities recorded Sep-Dec 2015
5268 activities recorded Jan-Dec 2016
5268 / 398 = 13 x higher
If there was no growth the number would be around 1592
You said it was "not growing to any extent", your statement is demonstrably false.
-
1 hour ago, shred said:
Were you shooting CO at the time? I was. Nobody did and it was not growing to any extent.
Yes, I was shooting a 9mm XDM with a red dot and 10 round magazines in 2014. The provisional division was announced July 27th, 2015 half-way through the year with evaluation being done the following January, just six months later.
At the January 2016 BOD Meeting the minutes reflect the following:
QuoteAgenda Item: Carry Optics
President Mike Foley led discussion on the recent history of the adoption of Carry Optics as a
provisional division. The division was approved in July 2015 with an initial review slated for Jan
1, 2016. Although the division was approved as provisional in July, we were unable to capture
data on the division until September 2015.So with only minimal data they changed the Grip Modifications, and weight limit.
The following January (2017) the Minutes relate the following:
QuoteActivity and Classifications in 2016
(Carry Optics/All Divisions)
• September-December 2015 activities 398/41641 (0.96%)• Year 2016 activities 5268/151582 (3.5%)
5268 of activities were CO in the first FULL year of being provisional, 13 times the number in 2015
In January 2017 the magazine capacity was changed to take effect in February.
From Provisional Status to changing the magazine capacity was just 18 months, the division had only run for ONE FULL season.
It took TWO FULL years for Production Division to take off in USA, they never gave this division a chance.
As stated above IPSC's ProdOptics has taken off with a 15 round limit and restrictive rule-set.
With Limited-Optics, USPSA has the opportunity to eradicate CO and replace it with Production Optics. Those with existing CO guns can shift to LO without any modifications but they can add magwells and thumbrests if they want.
-
32 minutes ago, Joe4d said:
Crimeinal activity by the existing BOD should be more than enough to get the current USPSA org booted from IPSC
I'm not sure if the BOD's actions reach the level of criminality, that may be a stretch and potentially libelous. I disagree strongly with how the org is being run, and the decisions that have been made since 2016.
-
A new USIPSC.org could be set up, though to be honest I'm not sure how to go about that. Once set UP it could petition IPSC to transfer the regional directorate away from USPSA.
I don't think it would impact USPSA too much, but at least it would give competitors a viable alternative.
-
Minutes: https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20231023.pdf
Amongst approved items is a polygraph test for BOD members to identify internal leaks. This may run afoul of Delaware law that could restrict the use of such devices for employees, not sure of the BOD are considered employees though they do receive an expense account. There is also the issue of the WhistleBlower protections administered by the Department of Labor.
From January 2024 the USPSA Magazine will no longer be shipped to Foreign Nationals. This may have repercussions as some foreign members may only have joined to get the magazine as not many of them travel to USA for matches, though some may shoot USPSA classifiers overseas.
Nationals Report. 1604 Competitors shot at one or more Nationals, I think thats about 5% of the membership.
- Carry Optics Largest Single Division Nationals – 500 (427 in 2022)
- Open Division was the 2nd largest Division – 282 (244 in 2022) -
- PCC Division – 162 (148 in 2022)
- Limited Division – 136 (139 in 2022)
- Limited Optics – 140
- Production – 104 (108 in 2022)
- Single Stack – 61 (154 in 2022)
- Revolver – 29 (39 in 2022)
- L10 – 3 (76 in 2022)
-
I think the divisions in the sport need to be significantly diofferent from eiach other to offer a clear choice to participants. You can't please everyone with a division that ticks every box, and any attempt to try will end up with a single division and no choices.
-
3 hours ago, shred said:
Nobody shot CO when it was a 10-round division
Nobody shot CO at 10 rounds is a myth; CO was growing slowly, just as Production division did when first introduced.
Many on this forum harp on about CO growing solely because of increase in magazine capacity or relaxation of equipment rules, yet they ignore the massive growth in IPSC's ProdOptics with 15 round limits and tight restrictions on modifications.
Thanks to the absurd changes in CO, we now have two divisions that are essentially the same except for a magwell and SAO trigger.
-
The number of people shooting minor in limited are likely caused by beginners who don't have enough magazines to shoot production.
In many of the clubs I used to shoot at they would recommend limited for beginners as it meant fewer reloads so they could focus more on safety and made for easier stage planning.
-
L1 Stage Design can make or break division participation.
Sadly, too often the goal is high round-count and not high-challenge. The core objective of the sport is to measure/improve gun-handling skills, something that has become lost over the years.
-
My first big match in USA was at the PASA range, it was the US-IPSC Nationals in 1998. I'd escaped from the UK in March of that year following the gun bans, I'd never imagined I'd get to shoot again.
From 2011 to 2016 I covered the Single Stack Nationals at this range, the staff/RO's were always accommodating and enabled me to get some great photographs and videos of the top competitors. Dick would make sure I had all the sponsor details and match information to assist me for my articles.
PASA Park will always be a special place for me.
-
Back in the day, a 'different view' meant moving to a different location, not just leaning.
-
I think you will notice a big change in the recoil impulse when switching from 180grn to 125grn bullets. I tried 150grn for a while when I started in ProdOptics and there was a noticeable change when I switched to 125's.
If I recall the 150's were slightly more accurate and poppers fell a little more promptly.
-
Its called Response
-
Practically every match I shot in Colorado from 1998 to 2019
-
I agree its a very nebulous issue, but one that can be easily avoided with good stage management. The best solution to a problem is preventing the problem in the first place.
-
Quote
4.5.2 The competitor may request that Match Officials take corrective actions to ensure consistency in respect of the range surface, the presentation of targets and/or any other matter.
The Range Master will have final authority concerning all such requests
I guess the question becomes how does the competitor prove the inconsistency ?
-
2 hours ago, IVC said:
Reasons to keep it is that the calibration zone didn't shift much, it's still the same circle
I disagree; The LPI (lowest point of impact) will have shifted because the lean.
As I stated earlier, proper stage management would prevent any of the issues in this thread. This is a sport and it should strive to present the same challenge to every competitor.
-
5 minutes ago, Timido said:
Major power factor is a huge difference between open and limited optics in my opinion
I think this depends a lot on stage design (difficulty and distance of targets) and accuracy of the gun/shooter.
-
1 hour ago, THS said:
Why we do not have the IPSC 3-2-1 stage mix requirement we have gravitated to lots of shots (which is fun for sure.)
The emphasis for most clubs is round-count, they are appealing to the most common shooter in the sport, the hobbyist who just want to have fun.The 3-2-1 ratio provides a more balanced test, it favors shooting skills over movement skills. Make a mistake on a short course and you can't make it up with foot speed.
-
Might be worth it to get a decent set of Allen keys too. Many of the tools that ship with parts are not exactly to specification. If they are slightly undersized then it can cause deformation of the screw head when tightening.
-
56 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:
Being lazy isn't a valid excuse to something being unachievable
I don't think it's necessarily lazy, most of the people in USPSA are hobby-shooters. It's something fun to do at the weekend.
Sure, they check their classification but they don't compete at any serious level so the lack of ability is not on their radar. They don't care enough to be lazy.
As long as they do just enough to beat their buddy, then they're okay with that.
-
Back when I was good at this (a long, long time ago), I could reload on my Open gun very efficiently. I never took my eyes off the target, I could reload with my eyes shut just as fast as when they were open.
I practiced reloading 100+ times every night for weeks.
A moving reload would cost me nothing, and having those extra rounds in the magazine would allow me to shoot more aggressively than if I had just one or two spare rounds.
When I started shooting a ProdOptics gun (back before it was even provisional) I found that doing a reload into the final position usually always worked out better for me; I don't think it's ever advisable to engage an array (especially steel) with just enough bullets left in the magazine.
-
2 hours ago, Runswithwood1 said:
Your best bet may be to take a screw and go to a local hardware store and buy good replacements
Agreed, and if you can find some with a Torx head they will be better.
Moving to Open too soon?
in Miscellaneous BEginners
Posted
I shot Open for many years, its an appealing division but it does have its drawbacks. The biggest issues for me were Price and Maintenance.
All mechanical devices are subject to failure. If you have only one gun then you may be without it for several weeks/months if it ever needs repair. Many serious competitors will always have a spare/backup in case of breakages, which doubles the cost.
One can purchase two ProdOptics or CO guns for far less than a single Open gun can cost, holsters and hi-cap magazines will also add to the initial outlay.
Follow your dream by all means, but be aware of the pros and cons surrounding any division.