Thanks for the help guys, I guess I will order some WST as I found some available where Im wanting to get my primers. I actually have some green dot, universal clays, and unique as stated before so I may try several loads using those before the WST arrives. Again, I am not new to reloading I've reloaded and shot over 6000 jacketed in the past 3 months just in handgun calibers and have reloaded for over 5 yrs I guess, but I am new to reloading hard cast so with you guys advice hopefully I can safely come up with some usable loads. With me having to previous experience with hard cast are the black bullets really worth the extra money vs standard hard cast? Guess I should ask this too, I was going to try the wolf primers for the price but normally use winchesters, cci, or federals. Is it worth a shot I have read very very mixed reviews. Thanks again