wlktheduk
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Posts posted by wlktheduk
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Ahh, the Shaky Bridge Standards...the only thing standard about that was the mikes/penalties and many, many black pasters being used. This is the THIRD time I've stood upon that infernal device, and it does not get better with practice.
About the only good thing that I can say about it, is that I did not have to try to reload my 625 while shaking and quaking.
I must confess that I had evil thoughts concerning a gallon of gas and a match, and how nice that range prop would look as the fuel source for a cook-out
As a member of Squad 11 on Saturday, the 5 revolvers (and 2 bottomfeeders that we permitted to enjoy our company) had a very good time. Diana is beginning to think about the way of the wheelgun...we may convert her yet away from that bottomfeeder. After watching how much fun (and time) wheelgunners get to spend on the range, she thinks that we get more "bang" for our $$$$ (we may get her to come over yet, Airedale)
My compliments to the Circleville crew for putting on a great Ohio Revolver Championship. BTW, the lunch was excellent, with a lot of healthy foods, and some great candy bars to provide the real food groups
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pisgahrifle: The way to tell if a powder is fast burning or slow burning is by checking a powder burning rate chart or table. These can be found in most reloading manuals, such as the Speer, Hornady, or Lee manual.
Bullseye is listed as one of the fastest burning powders, usually second only to V V-N310
As for your question about fouling and lead bullets, IMHO the choice of powder and powder charges has less to do with the amount of fouling. Most lead bullet fouling, gunsmoke, residue (in my guns at least) seems to come from the bullet lubricant, and how hard-cast the bullet is.
If you can try different brands of lead bullets, you may find a brand that produces less of a mess with your earlier 4.4 grain Bullseye load.
Part of the fun
of reloading is finding out what combination of powder, primer and bullet works best for you in your gun. -
I too was bitten with the Model 52 bug some years ago. Reloading for that one was a lesson in paying attention to details.
Brass: use one brand. Check and trim to length, with all the cases trimmed to the same length. Mixing brands caused bullet seating difficulties, with case bulges sometimes happening around the grooves that some brass have mid-way down the case.
Bullets: I was only able to use hollowbase wadcutters (HBWC) but did get good results with Hornady and Zero.
Taper crimp, to about .370, with flush seated bullets.
3.2 grains of WW231 powder worked well, as did Federal small pistol primers.
Once I settled on one type of brass and a consistent crimp, my reloads worked well.
Other (thread drift) problems with the Model 52: cleanliness was a mandatory...more then 150/200 rounds and problems started.
Magazines needed frequent cleaning. (no, I didn't drop them into the sand) Where the flat nose of the bullet seems to drag/make contact with the front inside curve of the magazine during feeding. If there was any dirt/powder residue there, failures to feed soon followed.
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My compliments to the match staff for an excellent day at the range. Colorful props, interesting courses
OK some were more interesting then others, but when you chose the way of the wheelgun, sometimes the way gets a little bumpy.......I had the pleasure of meeting some more forum members. My daughter was able to take part in her first major match in several years, and she made her dad's day.
My thanks to all concerned, for a very good time.
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Airedale, I'll be shooting Saturday with my left-handed wheel gun. Try not to laugh too much, even though I'm sure I'll do something silly juggling those moon clips.
I don't care what you say, you can't just throw those moon clips in the direction of the cylinder and expect them to fall in. Mine fall onto the ground !!!!!!!!
Still can't convince my daughter to give up that bottom-feeder, but we'll have fun shooting anyway. We'll see you there.
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Hopalong, thank you for the kind offer of the 646. Diana (my daughter) is in town for Mother's Day, and after reading your offer (as well as Airedale's intervention suggestion) she will still use her bottom feeder.
She has used revolvers, but short fingers and double action wheel gun triggers just didn't get along too well.... Anyway, we'll still have fun, even if some of us will have more fun then others.
After all, using a revolver ensures that I will get to spend more time on the range, more time then almost any other shooter there. (lots and lots more time)
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Having learned from my "mistake(s)" of last year, when I tried to use .38 special's, a 6" 686 and "speedloaders" (not in my hands, they're not speedy and they don't always load), at both the Buckeye Blast and Area 5, I have now joined the ranks of the S&W 625 mooners.
I'll be the lefty wearing a lot of moon clips...with a few spares in my pocket...I still haven't forgotten (or forgiven) the Landing Craft stage at last years Blast. I have my suspicions about certain Ohio based course designers.
I will try to get past the Ohio River border guards (they don't seem to like how some of us Kentuckian's drive) and I'm scheduled for Saturday. My daughter is giving me an early Father's Day celebration by shooting with me too. Although, I must confess, she will be using a bottom feeder
you try to raise them right, but they still go their own ways sometimes....... -
I take it that I will need to buy a few more moon clip holders then.
Last year at the Buckeye Blast I ended two stages with just one speedloader left on the belt....this could get interesting Flex
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Add my vote for using Federal primers as the primer of choice for a S&W 625 after an action job. WW primers are good primers in my ammo loaded for use in my 1911's, but I have learned the hard way to use Federals for the 625. (the click, click, click, bang, click, click sound still haunts me)
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Memories of the "good old days" of reloading on a single stage press.
At the time (Mid-80's) I was primarily shooting PPC (there was an IPSC club locally, but it was just starting up) For the monthly match with the usual couple of 1500 matches (150 rounds each), a Service Revolver 480 match (48 rounds) an Off-Duty match (40 rounds) you'd need between 400 and 500 rounds of .38 special wadcutters. So....with at least 500 brass cleaned and ready...put your sizing die on the press.
Day 1) resize 500 cases (the carbide sizing die was a "MIRACLE" of science) Change die to case mouth expander die.
Day 2) flare case mouths. Then prime each case. Either use a hand-priming tool, like a Lee, or use the primer arm on your press. Both meant you had to pickup and put the primer into the tool, one primer at a time. Change die to the bullet seating die.
Day 3) put primed case(s) into loading tray, 50 at a time. Set your powder measure. Dump a charge of powder (usually the classic 2.7 grains Bullseye powder) into each case. Set a wadcutter bullet onto the flared case mouth. One at a time, put the case w/bullet (if the bullet didn't fall off while you were moving it from the loading tray to the press) into the press, and seat the bullet.
Put loaded round into box. Repeat, and repeat, and repeat......
On a very good day, with no interuptions, I could finish about 200/250 rounds, SO, DAY 3 usually became DAY 4 And that was just enough ammo for the monthly match
And that did not include the ammo that the MemSahib was shooting with me....reloading became a chore.So just keeping up with match ammo, let alone practice ammo, used up a LOT of "SPARE TIME"
Since I also had these extra obligations like work, wife, family, etc....keeping ammo on hand became a real strain.
When She Who Must Be Obeyed blessed me with a Dillon Square Deal (not a SDB, the very first model) suddenly I found that I could reload lots and lots and lots of ammo, and not spend all my spare time in the gun room reloading. HAPPY DAYS !!!! Of course, She did have some plans for all that spare time.......
Patrick Sweeney: that Egyptian 9MM surplus ammo caused a shooting buddy to ruin a nice Marlin Camp Carbine in 9MM. As I'm sure you know, that 9MM carbine had a very powerful ejection pattern, tossing empties 10 to 20 feet away, in almost every direction. Bob got very tired of trying to find his brass, for reloading purposes, so when he got a very good deal on a case of Egyptian 9MM ammo, he thought he had the perfect throw-away ammo for plinking. He'd fired quite a few rounds of the Egyptian 9MM ammo through his S&W Model 659 9MM autopistol with no problems, so Bob figured it would be no problem in the Marlin.
BUT...the S&W Model 659 was made of STAINLESS STEEL, and the Marlin Camp Carbine's barrel was blued steel...er, it was blue. Bob fired a couple hundred rounds through the Marlin one weekend, and fired another couple hundred rounds the next weekend. Then Bob put it away in a gun case after cleaning it....one time. A couple of months went by, and Bob took the Marlin (in it's case) to the range.
The barrel was not blue any more...it looked more like a length of old iron sewer pipe...red/gray rust flakes, DEEP PITS, so much crud in the barrel that a cleaning rod would not drop freely through the barrel, stuff that looked like the junk you see on car battery terminals after a little corrosion. Even after a lot of cleaning work, the barrel and chamber were ruined.
Wallyworld White/Yellow/Green/Red Box is truly great stuff
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I'll continue to split my IDPA shooting between SSR and SSP
Why SSR? Well, in the interest of full disclosure it's because my S&W Model 10 is the only revolver that I own that is IDPA legal, and so it's the only revolver that I've used in IDPA during the last year. (2004)
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For carrying speedloaders, I've had good luck with the Safariland CD-2 speedloader holders. Cost is about $8.50 each, and I've found that I was able to get 4 CD-2's for the cost of 1 Safariland #333 holder. Which for me is a good thing...I can carry 8 speedloaders instead of 6 (and I usually need all of them)
Another advantage, if you use different revolvers, the Safariland CD-2 speedloader holders will handle any HKS and Safariland speedloaders for both S&W K and L frame revolvers, Colt Pythons, Ruger Security-Sixes and GP100's
(with a little bending, they will even work on speedloaders for S&W N frames)
For USPSA use, if you are using an inner/outer belt system for your holster, (like the Safariland competition belt system) a trick to keep the CD-2 clips from moving on the belt (that has worked for me) is to put velcro on the clip, so that the inner belt prevents it from shifting.
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Why do I shoot a wheel gun...
1) I wore one for quite a few years. The primary handgun for the first 20 years of my law enforcement career was a wheel gun. (assorted S&W's, and a Ruger)
Let's say there is a certain level of attachment.
2) After trying Bullseye, my next competition interest was PPC. The winning gun of the time was a bull barrelled, BoMar ribbed, wheelgun. Autoloaders were not even considered as an alternative. (some matches would not even allow them on the premises) If you didn't want to go full custom, a 6" barrelled S&W K-38, S&W Model 19, Colt Python, or a Ruger Security-Six would enable you to be competitive.
3) even when I first tried USPSA/IPSC, I still used a revolver for a long time. Full power .357 magnums in a 4" barrelled revolver will make major, and did get you noticed.
Yes, I confess. I have sinned I do use autoloaders. I love 1911's, Lugers, Walther's P-38's and PPK's. For most of the time I've used an autoloader in IPSC and IDPA. My Ruger .22 Competition Model pistol is extremely accurate for bullseye work. During the last 9 years I've carried assorted S&W, Ruger and Sig autoloaders while on the job.
BUT...I have a lot of FUN with a wheel gun. Last year I went to a revolver at the Buckeye Blast and Area 5. The fun factor was huge. I tried a revolver for Bianchi Cup matches, in metallic sight, and was quite happy with the results.
So, I like to shoot revolvers, and that's a good enough reason for me.
Besides, if I travel a long ways to shoot a match, I want to spend all the time I can on the range, and if you've seen my times with a revolver, lets just say I get my $$$$$ worth of range time.
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Well, time to try to make Flexmoney happier.
Since you were kind enough not to ask me kind of funky magazine this was, when I handed you a SPEEDLOADER for my S&W 686 at the 2004 Buckeye Blast, I suppose that I will try to make it across the Ohio border again.
And just to show that I am a slow learner, yes I will be using a wheelgun again.
But the plan this time is to use a S&W 625. (not for the moon clips...I need to make as big a hole in the target as I can, to try to get near to the A-Zone
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Duane, the article can be found in the July/August 1982 American Handgunner magazine, starting on page 50
"Is The Parabellum Practical" by Robert Shimek looked at using an Interarms Mauser Parabellum 06/70 (AKA the Swiss Model) in IPSC. IMHO, an excellent article, not only for the curiousity factor of using a "Luger", but also the insight into the early days of IPSC shooting.
The holster was an altered inside-the-pants Bucheimer Clip-on for a Mauser HSc .380. The "speed safety" was a glued on piece of rubber tube on the thumb safety. Hi-capacity was not as much of an issue in those days, and since the Luger's magazine held 8, (one more then the 1911 magazines commonly available then) evidently Shimek found it held enough for the COF's of the day.
On a personal note: A plaque that I am proud of was my 1st Place "D" class finish, at the Ashland Gun Club Practical Shooting Division match in November, 1985. I used a Walther P-38 (one of the West German Police trade-ins), since it was the only automatic I had at that time. And it was fun to shoot the match with. And that is still one of the big reasons that I shoot, the fun factor.
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The "trigger stop rod, part #5306" in my S&W parts diagram serves as an overtravel limit, and helps (some) in the trigger pull, mainly on the single action pull.
It's not essential to the safe operation of the revolver, but is one of the features that make the 625 a "target model" as opposed to a "service model" revolver. At least that is what they taught me in S&W Revolver Armorers classes, back in the day.
Without the pin, a sensitive trigger finger should notice some overtravel of the trigger, after a single action pull. How important this is depends on the user. If the pull feels good without it, I wouldn't worry. However, YMMV
A pistolsmith should be able to make you a replacement. Normally a section of drill rod, small enough in diameter to fit inside the rebound slide spring, is cut to fit the required length. This is a individual measurement, depending on your revolvers trigger and rebound slide.
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I have been using the 158 grain Ranier Flat Point bullet, with WW231 powder.
Using mixed cases, Federal No. 100 Small Pistol primers, I have fired the following loads through a S&W Model 686 with a 6" barrel, and a S&W Model 10 with a 4" barrel
These are +P pressure level loads, and there is some primer flattening. Also, on a cloudy day, or on an indoor firing range, there is some muzzle flash.
4.8 grains WW231 831FPS (131.2 PF) S&W 686, 6" barrel
4.8 grains WW231 806FPS (127.3 PF) S&W Model 10, 4" barrel
5.0 grains WW231 857FPS (135.4 PF) S&W 686, 6" barrel
5.0 grains WW231 840FPS (132.7 PF) S&W Model 10, 4" barrel
Yes, I know the 6" barrel is not legal for IDPA. But I used the 5.0 grains WW231 load this year in my S&W 686 to have a lot of fun shooting the Buckeye Blast and Area 5 USPSA matches, and also the Hillbilly and Cardinal Cup NRA Action Pistol tournaments. When the loose nut behind the trigger does his part, the 5.0 grain WW231 load is accurate enough for A ring hits on a Bianchi NRA D-1 target, out to 50 yards. YMMV, but I hope this helps
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Revchuck: grips that fit the Colt Python revolver (Model I) will fit the Model "E" and "I" frame revolvers.
The Colt Official Police, Officers Model Match, Trooper and Python all shared the same grip frame.
NOTE: If you have an Official Police MK III, (Model J ) that is a different frame, and it does use a very different grip (as well as a coil spring powered action, but that's another problem)
So, check your catalogs for grips that fit the Python and you can also use them on a Colt Official Police.
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Pachmayr Grips: I like the variety of sizes. The Presentation Model is the classic configuration, and works well for some shooters and styles of shooting.
The original Gripper Model (with the closed backstrap) and the current Gripper Decelerator Model fit my hand very well, and are what I'm using. The Decelerator Model is slightly wider then the original Gripper, which may matter. As Spook said, they feel like an autoloader grip.
The Gripper Professional Model has an open backstrap, like the Hogue MonoGrips. It's finger grooves are shallower then the finger grooves in the Hogues, IMHO.
FWIW: I started with Pachmayr Presentations, switched to Grippers when they became available. I used the Hogue's (in nylon) for about 10 years, but have now gone over to the Gripper Decelerator Model for my Model 10 and 686 S&W's.
One of the nice things about revolvers is how easy it is to switch grips, and how many styles of grips there are. (JUST LOOK IN MY PARTS BOX......
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According to a 1988 Shooters Bible, a 4" (heavy) barreled Model 13 weighs in at 34 ounces, and a 4" (skinny/tapered) barreled Model 10 weighed in at 30 1/2 ounces.
So, depending on the grips used, the difference is about 3 to 4 ounces, with the heavy barreled Model 13 being more muzzle heavy (since the additional weight is around the barrel)
Should that make a big difference...YMMV. All things being equal, a lighter gun recoils more then a heavier gun. Recoil could be effecting muzzle rise in the lighter revolver, and since for a Mozambique you want the muzzle to rise up onto the upper A/B zone anyway?????
Another thought might be that you are picking up the front sight of the Model 10 in your vision faster then the front sight of the Model 13. The front sight of a skinny/tapered barrel Model 10, while not actually higher then the front sight on a heavy barrelled Model 13, appears to be taller (viewed from the side) since it rises higher from the barrel.
Back in the day when the Model 10 was my agencies standard issue, some officers felt that they could see the sights on a skinny/tapered barrel Model 10 better then on a heavy barreled Model 10. Why?????
The quicker the front sight lines up in the rear sight channel, the quicker you should be able to break the shot. So far so good, but with a heavy barrel, if you let the front sight rise so that the top of the sight is high/over/out of the notch, the barrel begins to appear in your rear sight channel, blocking your view and sight picture.
With a skinny barrel, even if you let the front sight rise up high/over/out of the rear sight channel, the barrel does not appear in your view immediately, messing up the sight picture.
For quick, close-up work, a coarse sight picture focusing on the front sight will get hits. If you pick up the front sight faster....faster hits
Hopefully, I haven't confused you (or myself
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A comment about the Uncle Mikes kydex magazine pouches: the belt attachment plate, being a hard plastic piece, with slots for different belt sizes, with a curve molded into it, does not fit as well onto some belts as other mag pouches. If that is a problem with the belt you're using, then some other mag pouch might be in order.
Otherwise, they work very well for production. I like the adjustable retention/tension feature built into the pouch. (helps prevent mags jumping out...note I did not say KEEPS mags from jumping out....OOOPS
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"If going to church makes you a Christian, does going to the garage make you a car?"
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I thought I'd add some fresh results here...but no comments about progress. Last weekends NRA Region II Hillbilly Cup in Hinton, WV and the Virginia State Cardinal Cup are the first two "official" Action Pistol Matches I've shot in. (so progress starts from here
)My thanks and compliments to the clubs and members that put these two matches on. The range at Bluefield, Va (TriAngle Sportsmans Club) had brand new turning targets (which explains why I couldn't hit them.....Alibi #1)
Kevin AKA Action Pistolero, Alan550, and a bunch of other shooters were very helpful to my partner & I, since we had never done "the real deal" before. The tips, advice, and help that everyone present gave freely made it a blast.
I tried the matches with a S&W 686 revolver using .38 specials for Metallic, and a Browning GP 9MM competition/target model in Open (the model with the muzzle weight/long barrel) Maybe not the right stuff, but it made for a fun(ny) start.
NRA Region II/Hillbilly Cup
Falling Plates/Practical/Barricade/Mover 1920x192 possible
330x30 406x10 414x8 322x7 1472x55 METALLIC
300x30 363x10 396x7 352x6 1411x53 OPEN
Virginia State/Cardinal Cup
Falling Plates/Speedload Challenge/Los Alamitos/Mover 1860x186 possible
380x38 338x3 403x23 375x7 1496x71 METALLIC
390x39 398x11 410x25 387x12 1585x87 OPEN
Comments: I need to work on time management, after mostly IPSC'ing recently I may be shooting faster then I need to for this game. (when you're done in 6 seconds, and still have 3 more seconds at the 25 yard line on the plates, and some of the plates are still looking at you......Alibi #2)
And we won't even talk about the 50 yard stages, except to say that I suspect if I was classified on the basis of the 50 yard scores...my classification card would be marked: "NMP CLASS" (Needs More Practice....lots more)
It was fun, and Action Pistol will be something else added to the shooting games list. That is, of course as long as She Who Must Be Obeyed approves. She was mumbling something about "First Bullseye, then PPC, next IPSC and now Action....another excuse for gun buying...." Oh well......
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If the size of a Sig P-226 is a problem (either grip size or trigger reach) you might consider a Sig P-228 in 9MM. (I will confess my bias. The Sig P-228 has been an issue weapon in my agency since 1994, and I've owned a personal P-228 since 1996....and have been very pleased with both)
The issued grips (depending on when the pistol was made) are relatively narrow plastic with a good stippling pattern for gripping, or a Hogue rubber set. Both are smaller then anything I've seen on a P-226.
As for the trigger, there are shorter triggers available for the Sig's, which can be refitted by either a Sig trained armorer, or a pistolsmith which shorten the trigger reach.
IMHO, the double action first round in a Sig is smooth, and the single action triggers are very nice. I agree that the Sig trigger reset is longer then a Smith & Wesson double action, but it is shorter then a Beretta's, and (again IMHO) not too hard to learn.
Sig magazines for the P-228 have a full capacity of 13 rounds, but in a production world of 10 round limits, that should not be a problem.
Sight radius is a little shorter then a P-226 (due to the shorter slide) but that depends on your vision. It may not be any problem. Replacement sights are available (night sights, adjustables, 3-dot, plain black, whatever)
Recoil is subjective, but the Sig P-229 (same overall size as a P-228) was also made in 9MM (as well as the common .40 S&W and .357 Sig) and because of the heavier slide, may feel lighter in recoil then a P-228. As it is, I personally do not have any problems with 9MM recoil in a P-228.
Kevin, you stated that a Sig didn't work for you, even with a tuned trigger? A P-228 may not work for you either, but it is an option for those who like Sig's but find the P-226 just a little too big. My .02
of reloading is finding out what combination of powder, primer and bullet works best for you in your gun.
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Declaration Of Independence
in Quotes and Words
Posted
The local newspaper used to print The Declaration every Fourth of July, on the front page. With a banner headline, and additional comments on the editorial page.
Then the local newspaper got bought up by a bigger news conglomerate, and that custom stopped.
That does not make The Declaration any less important.
229 years ago, The Declaration was worth reading, understanding, and remembering, and it still is.
Thanks, Erik