euxx
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Posts posted by euxx
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1 minute ago, Joe4d said:
That makes no sense.. SS has little to nothing in common with Limited or Open.
Any Single Stack gun and gear is compliant with Limited, L10 or Open division requirements. So as any Production gun.
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30 minutes ago, RJH said:
Not really, I just want production shooters to have some people to shoot against. Same as I would like more people to shoot against when I am shooting single stack.
See, the Single Stack division is a subset of the Limited/L10/Open.But Production is not - it is a different game and you want to change that game for your own reasons or benefits. If you want to shoot Production - get the gear for division and join it or else you have several other divisions to shoot with the gear you already have.
Some said no one want to shoot Production anymore. But did anyone explored why or what other divisions people are moved to or why new people aren't considering it? -
2 hours ago, RJH said:
I occasionally shoot single stack, but I quite often shoot my 1911 in either L10 or limited. Sometimes with eight round mags and sometimes with 10 rounders, just depending on what I took to the match and what other people are shooting. A couple of matches ago I planned on shooting single stack but when I showed up there was actually a couple people shooting L10 so I just shot L10 with eight rounders, the last match I was at I shot limited with 10 round mags in my 1911 and old school single stack rig.
I just see production and single stack complementing each other very well and see no actual reason to separate them. I said many times that I would like to see l10, production, single stack, and maybe even revolver all thrown together and shoot eight major, 10 minor, and just have one low cap division. Maybe if four divisions were combined there would be enough participation to justify actually having one division.
This all sounds like you don't care of Production division, but for some reason want other Production shooters shoot something else... -
1 hour ago, RJH said:
The only other thing that would get me to shoot production, and the one I would prefer, is don't raise capacity limit but make it eight rounds major 10 round minor and let me shoot my single stack gun in it. I know that's not really production anymore, but it's the idea I like best. And it stuff's two dying divisions together and maybe it comes out with one that makes it. But I figure most people would rather up capacity
Is there anything needed to be changed in the rules to make you shoot SS again? Because that is what you really asking for...
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2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:
The last match I shot only had 1 production shooter. Most of the time that match has 0-3 production shooters. The division is essentially dead even up here around all these ban states where it should be popular.
How many Limited and Open shooters you've had at those matches?
Picking a handful of matches and pulling random conclusions out of that won't give you real picture of competitor's desires. E.g. the CO shooters who don't want to break an expensive optics already have Limited division. So, I still don't really see what you want to achieve by making Production division be more like Limited.
The data from low cap states will not show you if their competitors want to shoot low cap or not, but it will show you how many of those competitors have to shoot low cap. It all adds to the whole picture. -
4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
People who can properly visualize, stage plan and train wont have issue with "muscle memory" related reloads. I've shot plenty of low cap and never had that issue.
I am talking of the other way around. Bottom line - you have to train specifically for bot cases and it takes some time to switch back and forth and people who don't have to switch have some advantage.
4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:It's vary clear based on participation of low capacity divisions that the majority of people do not want to shoot them. If we eliminated L10 or increased the capacity of production, nothing would change for those people living in low cap states. They would continue to load 10 rounds in production and they'd just shoot limited with 10 rounds instead of shooting L10 with 10 rounds. Many of them already do this.
Not sure what exactly that is clear from... Looking at the results from non-capacity restricted states does not prove anything. Even area matches tend to be hosted in non-restricted states, even the same area includes states with capacity restrictions.
But really, what exactly you want to achieve by increasing Production capacity? What is wrong with existing 10 round capacity? Other than people not willing to learn to do these damn reloads...
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2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
I can think of two guys from a restricted state, both shoot PCC. I shot a match with them in A6 last year and after the match one was blocking his mags before going home and the other was like F-it I know the risks and I take my chances. He's a big boy, he can choose that if he wants. But there is no requirement to break to law.
I do get that a small minority of people like 10 round divisions.
You are relaying what you've seen other competitors were doing. I have first-hand experience with that. If you count the capacity-restricted states, it probably won't be a small minority.
And even if people don't like them, they have to live and deal with that - in many aspects. Including subconscious reflexes and muscle memory related to reloading after 10 rounds... People from the high capacity state have no idea how is that.
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6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
Most people I know from restricted states use hi-cap mags when out of state. They either borrow them, or block/unblock the capacity of their mags, or just break the law. Their choice really. Within their state everyone competes with 10 round mags no matter the division.
So I don't see a real need for 10 round divisions to cater to restricted states. I get some people just like reloading a lot.
Yeah, especially the "break the law" part of it...
But 10 round divisions is a different kind of game and reloading is part of the challenge. It will be very unfortunate for Production division to go away. -
1 hour ago, RJH said:
think the reasoning in appendix a2 is what he is looking for a way around. Say you had five guys shooting single stack so that division was fine, but only two guys shooting production, it'd be nice if you could just roll those production guys right in with single stack so that everybody that wanted to shoot low cap could. Appendix a2 just says you're shooting for fun basically if there's not enough guys in your officially made by USPSA division, which kind of sucks if you've invested time, money, equipment, etc in the division that USPSA created.
The MD can pass on acting at "unrecognized divisions" as per 6.2.2 or he can act on it using rule 6.2.5:
Where a Division is unavailable or deleted, or where a competitor fails to declare a specific Division prior to the commencement of a match, the competitor will be placed in the Division which, in the opinion of the Range Master, most closely identifies with the competitor’s equipment.If, in the opinion of the Range Master, no suitable Division is available, the competitor will shoot the match for no score.
You can't put Prod competitors into SS division, but you can put both Prod and SS into the Limited one.
1 hour ago, RJH said:As to the question of if there's not enough shooters to actually sustain a division should USPSA get rid of it, maybe that is something that should also be looked at. I've shot single stack and L10 for quite a while, but I know they have basically no participation anymore
The L10 and the Prod are the special ones. They allow participants from the states with capacity laws to compete competitively. Kind of... -
1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:
I think the idea is to put people is a division that's not dead. Not find a work around for dead divisions.
That is what APPENDIX A2 is for. -
43 minutes ago, RJH said:
That's not really what Moto was getting at I don't think. I think he was trying to have a way for people whose division wouldn't have enough participation alone to be combined with another like division so that a shooter wouldn't feel forced to shoot something they didn't really want to just to have an official division result. Obviously we can look at overalls now, but I think maybe he was trying to do something to make it a little more official, I guess?
Somehow everyone forgot about APPENDIX A2 in the USPSA rule book.
There are requirements for minimum competitors per Division. They are only a recommendation for L1 and L2 matches, but that does allow an MD to move competitors from the low-attended divisions. E.g. low-attended Revolver, SS and Prod can be all moved to a Limited to be recognized at a given match.
Though I don't see that done automatically by PractiScore, because there are too many unknown things in the mess... But for tracking purposes this can be handled as declared vs. actual division in the PractiScore match results. -
10 hours ago, RJH said:
I completely understand that it's not officially recognized, but anybody that doesn't believe that there is an overall winner of a match is lying to themselves. In the early rules of practical shooting laid down back when Jeff Cooper and others invented the game, there was no allowance for different type of guns everybody competed heads up. This is kind of my point, we have divisions now, but the divisions really are nothing more than a way for people to win participation trophy. That's fine and all but acting like a fantasy division doesn't exist is a lie, because it does.
In the game invented by Cooper and all there was no gun race. Also there were other things, like testing holster retention by roll over. The point is that sport had evolved and branched out into several different games targeting different gun skills and mind set. It is obvious that the low-cap Production and Revolver divisions require different tactics than Open and PCC. Not to mention that since Cooper's declaration of the IPSC sport there were other disciplines added for Shotgun, Rifle, etc.
If you are believe in a fantasy division game. By all means jump on the gun race train and shoot Open. But that doesn't mean others have to share your beliefs.10 hours ago, RJH said:I've seen one poster on here multiple times say that a fantasy division was created because of practicscore, my point was you've been able to see a fantasy division long before practicscore was a thing. They're just talking off of what they think they know, rather than what actually is. So I was just trying to educate somebody in the fact that you've been able to look at a fantasy division across divisions forever.
Before PractiScore you had to have access to the results database or ask MD for the combined results.
The PractiScore website for sure added to the "a fantasy division" misconception by having the "Combined" results a default view for the USPSA/IPSC match results and calling them "Overall". Mainly because developer who did that wasn't an USPSA/IPSC shooter. It is been hated enough that several shooting sports been requesting to remove it all together...
10 hours ago, RJH said:And everyone still has the same opportunity to win a fantasy division, if they are not a fantasy division it's their own fault. People may not like to hear that, but it's 100% true
Except that in many cases you have to actually play by the "a fantasy division rules" and bring the gun that would be 100% competitive to be 100% true. There are exceptions from that at "smaller" matches, but they only confirm the "rule". Otherwise we would have seen proof of that in the back-to-back Nationals match results.
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9 minutes ago, RJH said:
HOA has been around a lot longer than practicscore. I used to look at it on easy win score all the time, before practicscore had even been invented. You can try and justify your participation award all you want, but when we go to a match we all know there's one winner. But now we have divisions and classes so we can get participation trophies. Believing otherwise is just lying to yourself. And everybody has the same opportunity for HOA and if you're not HOA it's nobody's fault but your own
You can look at anything you want. But even with PractiScore-created results is the only official ones and the ezwinscore is long gone, the hoa is not someting recognized in the rules of the sport. You can use it for bragging if that makes you feel good or as a tool ot compare your performance with other shooters, given that you do realise that each division is its own kind of game.
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12 hours ago, BritinUSA said:
Yes, and sometimes
once they announce it (and it's added to Practiscore) then its open season.
For results purposes PractiScore does NOT need to do any work.Anyone can add any "toy" or "provisional" divisions they like at any match.
Just convert your "toy" divisions to Open before posting your USPSA activity...
Another option is to tag such divisions as custom categories. -
On 12/8/2022 at 7:47 PM, Stuey said:
So I may be waiting till September, this timer better be worth it.
On 12/8/2022 at 7:18 PM, TK66 said:Oh no…. I ordered mine in Aug hoping to get it for next spring. Fingers crossed.
I'm pretty sure Alex has some good stock of required parts. He will have to wait for the new components, but that should not increase the lead time for your orders.
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24 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:
How do I see the team results in the app ? I'm running iOS
thanks
It is next to the category results.
https://www.facebook.com/eugene.practiscore/posts/pfbid022FuGTbo9fFZcSV83e2wF4PYCjGojtqUkaERPCJw4GtgkGsaNfb3CSG5V8TnrimqSl -
11 hours ago, rowdyb said:
National team results?
See. Using PractiScore Competitor app has its benefits... -
7 hours ago, PhilTerry said:
That seems to have happened. I don't see an unusual HF in the results for. Open Stage 16
The next one is the top Stage 6 run in POL division from a pre-match - 5 sec better than best runs of the top Production guys... -
33 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:
There was a similar issue many, many years ago. There was some discussion about adding a function to the scoring software that would highlight anything that was significantly higher than a competitors average scores, or when compared to others on the same stage.
I'm guessing it was never implemented.
Which scoring software are you referring to?
Even if it was missed at the stage, it is not a rocket science to check all 30 stages at the end of the day and look for abnormal times or scores... -
17 minutes ago, Unibrain said:
Looking through the results that are PractiScore there are some suspicious scores. How does IPSC handle those? For USPSA I'd call out rule 9.10.2 and it would be corrected if someone arbitrated.
Even for USPSA, after scoresheet is signed off, by the letter of the rules, someone would need to fill in a formal 3rd party arbitration in that case. -
On 11/20/2022 at 10:41 PM, rowdyb said:
I was a physicist, I can do that math in my head haha. People love the competitor app, just not for me.
For my curiosity. Would you elaborate what issue(s) you have with the PractiScore Competitor app.
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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:
I do not have the competitor app, oh well. Still thank you.
Well, go get it, if even as an one time thanks gesture. But who knows, you may find it useful for other things...
Limited Optics
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Which part of my statement does not make sense? It is straight USPSA rule book.
Maybe so, or maybe your MD or stage designers got out of ideas and they are making you shoot stages in four targets every time, or just designing stages for higher capacity divisions.
With that likely case, running a higher capacity division gives you more options and allowing to take risks and do other silly stuff you can't otherwise afford on such stages...
Maybe so. Most of my decade of IPSC shooting is done with 10 round mags. Still haven't got old.