Jake Di Vita

I'd have to see some video (preferably reps moving every direction) to see what is causing the problem when you move to your strong side. I actually try to keep my entire torso mostly square to the backstop until the reload is completed. The reason I do that is so it makes no difference whether I'm moving left or right. If I'm executing it well the reload is done right about at the same time as my first step in the direction of where I want to go. This also helps keep the position of the gun and fresh mag during the load more consistent. My goal is to fire the final shot of a position and then smash the load at the same time as I start moving (during the drop-step of a hard exit).

Looks like most of the people shot it very cautiously. I'd be willing to bet all 20 people posted are capable of 1.5 or less. Third of a second off the pace and you lose 5 or 6 match points. Brutal.

Yep, it takes a lot of work to make this stuff automatic. Not strange at all. Anything other than that would be strange. I think that you can do 90% of your reload practice standing still. The difference between reloading while still and while leaving a position is minuscule to me. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet the difference of performance you have on field courses vs classifiers has to do with something other than reloading.

I made sure I was real warmed up before I started running the drills each day so there wasn't a ton of difference between how 1 and 100 felt. Each session was a week apart, I don't necessarily think I carried a higher skill level in to each successive test. It takes a long time for me to build skill that sticks. As far as feeling like a noob, needing rounds down range, and making stupid goofs....I still do all that and more. Yeah the actual amount of skill required to hit GM isn't beyond the grasp of many people. Everyone is busy. Everyone has legit excuses. We all have reasons why we can't do things. The people that really want it just figure out a way to make it happen despite all that. Talent is everywhere. Tenacity isn't.

Yeah I think that's reasonable. When people make changes in their mechanics they tend to pay a little closer attention to what they're doing as well. My hands usually relax a bit when I'm not immediately shooting at something, but if the tighter grip helps your reloads that's great. As far as measuring the improvement, make sure you give it a good long time of practice before you come to any conclusions.

"Lighten up, Francis" was the one you were lookin' for. And my blood pressure is stellar, thank you. Can I come sit on your couch and talk to you about feelings?

You're completely insane saying this about one of the better shooters on this forum who helps people for free all the goddamn time. Perhaps once you've answered the same question for 5-10 years you'll understand why someone says "use the search feature". There's a lot of good information in those old threads. Too bad most people don't take the time to look. "Spammers like this"....God that pisses me right off. You've been a member here since August and you have the gall to say that crap about Cha-Lee who has actually been contributing here for somewhere around 8 years. What a joke. Go back under your bridge. For sure. I think most people are going to take waaaay longer than a few weeks to make that kind of change though. My general rule for people is they aren't allowed to complain or get frustrated about skill development until they've worked that skill everyday for 6 months.

I didn't ignore what you said at all, I think I'm not explaining myself correctly. When you do movements that are complex in nature doing the entire thing has a different effect on you than doing the individual parts. This is clearly seen in many areas of athletics. The only reason I brought the clean up is that it is much more complex than a reload so it's just an easy example to illustrate how practicing the whole thing is different than the pieces. Because the reload is comparatively simpler the problem isn't as apparent, but it's still there and it probably effects others worse than it effects you. It appears to me like you're saying the steps in a reload are as different and distinct as a clean is from a jerk. I would say the difference in the clean and jerk is more analogous to a draw and reload as opposed to different steps inside a reload. In that case, practice of one doesn't require the other. But you can't practice a clean by deadlifting and front squatting just as I believe the same type of practice method is less than ideal for a reload. I don't believe this is accurate. The first thing is the clean isn't a single action. It is a product of many smaller actions just like a reload. As I've said before, those actions when done fluidly in sequence apply a different stimulus than if done individually. You also say that each step in a draw and reload are independent of the steps that come before them. I just don't agree. I think every shooter has an individual ideal position for any action related to shooting that sets them up with the best chance to succeed. Getting out of position on an early step can cause problems a few steps down the line. One of the biggest issues with practicing individual movements is people (maybe not you) will often find themselves performing the action slightly differently when practiced individually as opposed to as a whole. When you try and put the whole thing together at full speed tiny differences add up fast. As you know, in Open GM small things can be the difference between winning and losing. I want to minimize the difference in mechanics as much as I possibly can. I know you probably don't think there's a difference, but we'll just have to agree to disagree here. All that being said, I'm not telling you to change. Doing what you're doing has obviously worked for you. To me, what I'm describing is the most logical way to approach skill development based on my experience of coaching myself and others over the years. As always, do what you feel is best.

Well it actually isn't. A clean is 3 distinct pulls. The first pull is essentially a chest high deadlift to get the bar from the ground to just above the knees. The second pull is the violent explosive pull that creates momentum and acceleration on the bar. That goes from just above the knee to full extension of the hips, legs, and ankles. The third pull is while the bar is weightless, you then and only then pull with your arms until you wedge yourself between the bar and the ground. All 3 of these pulls have distinct ideal body positions that if they aren't executed properly you massively hamper your ability to do the complete movement. You see mistakes during the clean that you don't always see while doing the individual movements. If I were to practice the clean by it's constituent parts it would be a deadlift, followed by a hang power clean, followed by a front squat. Yes all three of those movements are valuable in their own right, but they don't do the same thing to the body as combining them into one fluid compound multi joint movement. If you're using any amount of weight that is difficult, you won't get away with kinda screwing it up. As the intensity of the movement increases so does the demand on mechanics. I think the principles you see here do translate at least partially to the reload. Yep, I agree. I'd just rather him learn how to speed up the weak hand while doing the whole thing.

Interesting. I'm actually not a big fan of breaking things down into their constituent parts. There's a concept we use in lifting called "compound yet irreducible" which basically means the individual parts don't apply stimulus the same way as doing the full thing. Now the reload and the draw aren't effected to the same degree as a squat clean is for example, but I think there is still something to it. I've found there's a tendency especially among less experienced shooters that when practicing individual parts they don't always carry over to the full thing. While learning I'd rather someone move slower and consciously burn in the correct habits then force those habits to remain the same while increasing speed. I think this gives better results over time than practicing one part and then trying to integrate it seamlessly. You've obviously made it work well for you, but I think a larger number of people would have trouble with this rather than make it work for them with the same amount of success as you..

I dunno about that. There are frequently situations in stages where reloads need to be done within a step to not delay shooting. I see one or more of these situations in just about all the matches I shoot in Open. The number of times this is seen for Production is too frequent to ignore. Excluding that, I think it is generally best practice to finish the reload as early as you possibly can so you can focus all of your attention on the next task in your stage. The hard part of this is not delaying your movement for the reload. The only way I can get this done correctly is to smash the load as I accelerate out of position. To me, this is how real high level standing reload ability can transfer to reloading between shooting positions. His reloads are strong enough to get him to any class he wants but there's nothing wrong with making a strength even stronger. Match performance in Production certainly requires a more developed reloading ability than any division except revolver. Because of that I think it's warranted to spend time here even if it isn't the lowest hanging of fruit.

Yeah pretty much what Pete and rowdy said. The answer is in your question. If squeezing hard drains your grip, then continuing to do what drains your grip will make your grip better. As mentioned earlier there are certainly cross training methods to increase grip strength/stamina. In general if doing something exhausts you by definition it is applying stimulus to make yourself better at what you're doing. Consistency is the most important thing. Wanna add one more thing...If you can only dry fire with a properly tight grip for 3 minutes before you're exhausted, then just do 3 minutes and take a rest until you can do it again. The consistency thing is two part. The first part is consistency in how you are applying your grip and the second part is consistency in doing it frequently. If you skip out on one of those you're hamstringing your ability to improve.

Yeah I like watching the mag fall out of the gun, I think that's generally good advice. I would advise against standing more erect. If you're standing erect while you're shooting the gun is almost certainly going to be pushing you around at least a little. Gotta learn to do the reload while in your most effective shooting position. The Burkett method would help with what you're describing. However, I'd like you to work on developing the control necessary to make adjustments to certain parts of your technique without allowing it to effect other parts. No worries about doing the Burkett method in the short term but I view it almost as training wheels. Something good to allow you to learn but needs to be discarded eventually. That's the great thing about shooting is you can practice almost everything for free. Hopefully this gives you a bit of a blueprint on how to proceed. Happy to help. I just index my trigger finger on the frame. There's a spot over the slide stop pin where the finish is worn off the gun where my finger stays when it is outside of the trigger guard. The skate tape that Sarge mentioned is a pretty good idea. Points of reference are always good things. My finger goes back to the trigger as soon as I start extending the gun back towards the target. Couple things. Lately I've been doing most of my dry fire with empty mags. The weight obviously isn't the same but it also requires being a little more precise. If there is a round in the mag, you can impact that round into the magwell and still have the mag go in the hole. With an empty mag if you hit anywhere around the feed lips the mag is not going into the gun. The best of both worlds would be to practice with a weighted mag that had the feed lips open. So I wouldn't say practicing with empty mags is cheating yourself...both empty and full mag practice have their place. Your practice methods are the same ones I use. I go really fast because it's impossible to learn how to go fast by moving slow. I also have bruised the crap out of the base of my palm more than once and I too beat the hell out of the mags and magwell. I think you're on the right track.

Ok. First thing if your timer is set at 1.1 and you're starting your reload by reacting to the timer that would be closer to .9 if we were measuring the shot to shot split on the timer. If you're having trouble consistently hitting the speed we saw in the video, show me the bad reps too. I can only offer limited feedback if I don't see exactly where you are breaking down. That's why I like match footage so much to create a training plan. Can't hide the bad stuff. If you could do what you do in the video 100% of the time, I'd tell you to quit worrying about it and just focus on the other aspects of your game that are slowing you down. Anyway, I saw a few things that I would adjust. The first is the orientation of the gun at mag insertion looks like it might be a little awkward for the arm that is bringing the fresh mag. Without holding a gun in your hand, draw your fresh mag at full speed and put it in the position around your chest/neck area that feels the most comfortable. Note how the mag is oriented is all 3 axis and try to align your gun to that position when you reload. The second thing is personal experience from when I shot production. I noticed that when I kept the elbow of my reloading arm tight to the side of my body I could use that as a point of reference to make the reload as close to the same every time as I could. You mentioned that you fall apart when you move your hands faster, this really helped me with my consistency. The largest place you are losing time is without a doubt the point from full grip to getting the fresh mag in your hand. You have to think of your arm as a wet towel and snap it down to new mag. If that is the only part of your load you change, you'll knock a tenth off. You could probably get from pouch to gun a little faster as well, but you'll have an easier time improving gun to pouch speed as it doesn't require quite the same level of precision at the end. The most important thing of all. If you really want to get good, you need the gun in your hand at least for a little bit everyday. Remember that this is an intricate and long process. Consistently working at the edge of your ability is how you get better at anything and it takes time. Years of cumulative effort. It's important to be patient and let the training work.

When I was a B class production shooter one step reloads were the gold standard goal among the group of people I tended to squad with. I've always felt that accomplishing the load within the first step of movement is best practice. The counter point of this is the large group of people that feel reloading like this delays the start of their movement and they would rather reload on the way. There are lots of people that utilize both methods really well. The only way you know what the best method is for you is to thoroughly test it all with a timer. This has all been hashed and rehashed in past threads but my feeling is if you develop your reload to a high enough level you can complete it at the beginning of your acceleration into movement without delaying the movement at all. Which as you said is within a step or step and a half.

Yeah I really doubt you are physically incapable of sub second loads...a lot of the time people are moving their hands fast enough to accomplish the load in under a second but they take forever to shoot a round after mag insertion. There's a significant difference if you're relying on the magwell to get the reload done. Well executed reloads don't even touch the magwell so I'd say if you're doing it right it doesn't really matter if you're shooting prod vs. ltd/open. SS is a little different since there isn't a taper to the mags, but since you're allowed a small magwell I'd call it pretty close to the same effective difficulty as production. I think the only thing the magwell does is increases consistency because of a larger margin for error, although sometimes it has the opposite effect if people are just aiming for the magwell instead of the actual hole the magazine goes into.

1.25 average reloads at B class for sure aren't his low hanging fruit. But I doubt he's pulling a 1.25 average right now with his CZ as he's said the platform switch has caused problems. Focusing on shot calling is good advice as a lot of other suggestions would be that have nothing to do with the question he asked. You don't think your muscles are capable of doing a sub second reload? Why is that? I've seen you type at least 50 times about how healthy and fit you are. I've also seen plenty of people around your age that aren't healthy and fit who are able to do a sub second load. Elite level hand speed would be like a .6 reload....all you need to hit a second is decent hand speed and very good precision at that speed. I liked the pause outside of the magwell when Buckett (tribute to my old friend Stew) first came out with his videos eons ago, but after years of work and thought on the subject I'm not a fan of it anymore. All my practice at this point is at a speed higher than I would go in a match and while the pause is not a lot of time it is more than I want to be there.

Well if I were you I'd try and get that backstop built. Post video of some speed loads when you can (dry fire, live fire, either is fine). The suggestions made so far are more of how to practice reloads but since you're having trouble with the technical parts of it, don't worry about that stuff yet. First thing is lets figure out what is causing the problem, then we can talk about how to practice it. Let's also not worry about the retention or slide lock loads, you're to be bashed over the head by the idpa rulebook no longer. The two posters above me seem to think it won't be much of a problem to get your reloads under a second. Well I'm here to tell ya that consistent sub second reloads in production are no joke and it's going to take a lot of work for that to happen.

I do not concur. I can easily demonstrate putting my finger on the right corner of the trigger, pushing hard left on the trigger/gun while pulling it, and still not let the gun move. What matters is how connected you are to the gun and how well you can keep it pointing where you want it to be while you move through the stage and pull the trigger. Most of the time people aren't applying more than 5 or 6 pounds of pressure total through the entire trigger press. Say they are doing it inefficiently and 2 pounds of that pressure is pushing the gun to the side. It's very easy for both of your hands to resist that 2 pounds of sideways pressure. Focus on the sights and drive them into the target the entire time you're pulling the trigger and you'll start to find that sloppy trigger control is easily counteracted by just forcing the gun to stay where you want it. If we're talking bullseye at 25 yards or shooting a rifle at 800 yards then sure, work on trigger control. The acceptable margin of error is so small in those disciplines that everything needs to be much closer to perfect. We simply will never need that level of precision in uspsa.

1.25 average at 7 is pretty good for high B production. Track everything you practice if you can, more data is always a good thing. You say your reloads went to crap when you switched platforms. Is 1.25 what you were doing with the Glock or what you're currently doing with the CZ? How long ago did you make the switch? How much do you dry fire?

I'm gonna need you to be way more specific. What is your division/class? What is your current training? How long have you been doing it? What kind of target at what range are you using to measure your reload time? Video is useful.

It took like 10 hours over the course of an entire month to do that, each session was recorded as being from 6:00 pm - 8:30 pm...hardly a huge expenditure of time and money. The testing isn't nearly as much work as you're making it out to be and the recording of drills is important for anyone who wants to improve. It's not that I have a surplus of time and money to throw at the game, I just made it a higher priority than a lot of people do. I haven't shot a nationals in almost 10 years because I don't have the resources to prepare like I'd need to for a performance I'd be happy with. What separates GMs from everyone else is the work that happens when most people are sleeping, hanging out with friends, or relaxing. The only thing special about my situation is I hate losing a lot more than most people who hate losing.

Glad to hear it, feel free to come back with any other questions. Even if you just do 10 minutes of dry fire a day squeezing very hard it'll eventually get easier and 10 minutes a day is far more time than you'll ever spend doing it at a match. You can build up to it over the course of a month or two so it isn't a big shock to your gripping systems.

Between lifting frequently, rock climbing infrequently, and dry firing every day squeezing the hell out of the gun it isn't even a blip on my radar. Train like you compete and you'll develop the necessary strength/stamina.

What's the average time difference in your splits between the harder and hammerish squeeze on both close targets and far targets? Since I'm asking you for times, I'll provide mine. Looking at my notes when I tested this years ago I ran 400 bill drills doing all 100 of one method a day once per week for a month. 100 at 7 yards squeezing very hard, 100 at 7 yards squeezing a little less hard, 100 at 25 yards squeezing very hard, 100 at 25 yards squeezing a little less hard. 7 yards less hard I averaged 1.67 (fastest 1.52 and slowest 1.79) and shot 535 alphas, 64 charlies, 1 delta for 2933/3000 points. Average hit factor of 17.56 7 yards very hard I averaged 1.55 (fastest 1.30 and slowest 1.70) and shot 557 alphas, 43 charlies for 2957/3000. Average hit factor of 19.07. 25 yards less hard I averaged 2.74 (fastest was 2.41 and slowest 3.03) and shot 507 alphas, 78 charlies, 13 deltas, 2 misses for 2853/3000 points. Average hit factor of 10.41. 25 yards very hard I averaged 2.35 (fastest was 2.07 and slowest 2.61) and shot 532 alphas, 65 charlies, 3 deltas for 2926/3000 points. Average hit factor of 12.45. I haven't looked at this notebook for years, I had forgotten how compelling the data was.