RaymondMillbrae

Hey folks, my buddy just took the plunge and purchased a new open pistol, specifically a .38 super comp. Is there any load data that yall can share with me/him? He is new to this caliber, so he has not even purchased powder or bullets yet. (I told him to "slug" his barrel to get the best bullet size). Any good load data would be great. Thanks. In Christ: Raymond

ACP = "Automatic Colt Pistol". In Christ: Raymond

This is exactly the same conclusion I also arrived at. The longer "barrel dwell time," means the slug will still be within the barrel as it starts to flip upward once fired. (Hence raising the POI). I tried different reduced powder charges, trying to find that perfect "low recoil" slug...but it cannot be done. If I go too low (great recoil reduction), it will shoot awesome at up to 25-yards...but will suffer drastically at 50+ yards. On top of that, the slower it is, the less consistant it is. But also realize, I am specifically speaking about the Lyman sabot slug. (I have not verified this with other slugs, but the physics should still be the same). Also note that I am using a Remmy 870P, with an 18" inch smooth bore barrel. I am now starting to cast my own Lyman 525-grain slugs - and I have realized that the best LONG DISTANCE ACCURACY (up to 100 yads) is with the hotter loads. The POA/POI will stay pretty consistant from 25 to 75-yards with hotter loads. (1330 FPS to 1470 FPS). You can also squeeeeeeeeze out a bit more accuracy if you are rolling your own Lyman sabot slugs by filling the hollow base with a glue gun, or by inserting a "nitro card wad" in between the slug and the bottom of the wad. This will prevent the plastic wad from deforming and squishing itself within the hollow base of the slug, and will also hold the round shape of the hollow base from deforming into an oval shape...or worst. (Some folks say recovered Lyman slugs have hollow bases that look like wrinkled prunes). Just some food for thought. In Christ: Raymond

RePete, that was exactly my thinking as well. But when I checked my thoughts with my shooting pardner, he mentioned the possibility that it could be the aerodynamics of the round...or something thereof. So I decided to ask, just to be on the safe side. Intel6, it is funny that you should mention that (Lyman sabot slugs being more accurate), as I have heard some folks say that the Lee Key's are more accurate. But like I prefaced with my original question, I wanted to have reasoned answers...and if you have shot them both before, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE trumps all. I will keep those thoughts in mind as I continue my slug journey. Thanks! In Christ: Raymond

OK, folks, here's the deal. One of the things I have discovered, was that if I reduce the powder charge on the Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs too much, they will have a tendancy to skyrocket upward at 50-yards. (I am using a Remmy 870P, 18" inch, smooth bore shotty). I was originally loading the Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs as per the Lyman reloading manual. (26-grains of Universal Clays @ 1328 FPS). But along the path to finding a nice "low recoil load," I took it down to 24-grains. The new loads felt pretty good. (Earlier I had pretty much zeroed the original load at 50-yards, and I could keep them within an 10" group while rapid firing with my Remmy 870P shotty). But with these new "low recoil" loads, I noticed that they were shooting over 9" inches high at 50-yards. And on top of that, the groupings were pretty inconsistent. What the...?! I posted a question about this on another thread, and I believe it was Benny Hill that said it was due to the "longer barrel time". This made me scratch my head. Why would the longer barrel time (slower FPS's) cause the slug to rise? Was it something to do with the aerodynamics of the slug? If it is, could someone please explain it to me. (In laymans terms, please). This got me to thinking even deeper. Maybe I should just keep them hot, and keep to the original load data. (26-grains @ 1328 FPS). Then I got another thought...maybe I should just go down to the 1-ounce Lee Key slugs. And when this new thought came to mind, the next obvious question was "Hmmmmm...I wonder which would be more accurate, The Lyman 525-grain sabot slug, or the 1-ounce Lee Key slug"? Has anyone figured this out yet? And also, how do the Lee Key slugs perforn with a smooth bore shotty? Reasoned answers would be appreciated. In Christ: Raymond

OK, folks, I think I am going in a different direction now. Click HERE to check out my new thread, as it may open a new topic of discussion. In Christ: Raymond

Thanks. One of the "sucky" things about being the middle man for my buddy, is that I have to read through all this stuff and give him a cursory overview from my perspective/interpretation. He also asked me to ask yall..."As a beginning shooter in the open division, what would yall recommend that he start with"? He has the money for a nice toy, but he wanted to know if he should play in the LIMITED DIVISION for a while until he is prepared to move up to the big boys. Or should he just go ahead and get his new toy, and adapt to it? I'm of the camps that he should just purchase it, and go for it. But he wanted opinions and reasoned thoughts from others who have already tread this path and become Open Division shooters. By the way, we are both shooting Limited-10, and he is very decent with his shooting. Thanks. In Christ: Raymond

Hey folks, I have a question for yall. My buddy is looking into getting into the open gun division. And he was curious to know what the pro's and con's were for an open gun in .38 super, verses a .40 cal. We know the brass is a huge factor, as the .38 super can be reloaded less often, and are expensive to find. We know that the .38 super needs to be loaded hot in order for the compensator to work. (Which keeps the flip down). We know the 38 super has a larger round capacity. (Due to it's smaller size). We also know that if you look at the folks at national/world competitions, that they are using .38 super. (They must know something, right)? But what else? Are there any folks using .40 cals in the open division that are meat-eaters? Can you purchase a nice, tricked-out .40 cal open gun and get similar benefits as a .38 super? My buddy asked me to throw this out at yall for a response. Thanks. In Christ: Raymond

Wow, that's funny you should menton low recoil loads shooting high at 50-yards. I was trying to zero my "home-rolled" Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs (low recoil), and they were shooting great at 20 and 25 yards. But when I took them out to 50 yards, they were shooting almost a foot high as well. Why is this? Should I just leave it "as is" (because it is dead accurate at 25-yards), and aim low for 50-yard shots? Or should I adjust the sights to the 50-yard zero? Just curious to hear some different opinons. In Christ: Raymond

Racine, I cannot really help you on shortening a synthetic stock, but here are a few videos to get you started. SHORTENING THE BUTTSTOCK ON A SHOTGUN INSTALLING/FITTING A RECOIL PAD FINISHING-UP A RECOIL PAD In Christ: Raymond

Arkieron, excellent eye in catching my equipped Crimson Trace grips! And yes, you are correct. I have the weapon set-up exactly for those reasons. In Christ: Raymond

OK folks, I have been meaning to do this for a while now, and I finally did it. Here is a turorial on the Hornady 366 Auto Progressive Loader with Lyman sabot slugs. That's right...LYMAN SABOT SLUGS. Let me start by saying that I have been all over the internet looking for video footage of the Hornady 366 Auto Progressive Shotshell Loader...to no avail. I scoured YouTube and a few different places and never found footage. So I made a mental note to someday make footage of my lil beasty in action to share with you folks.. So tonight I finally got off my duff and did it. Let me start by saying that I sound funny. My wife said that it how I always sound...and I told her, "What"?! (Isn't it always weird to hear yourself talk)? Secondly, I started-off with a T-shirt in part 1. But then I had to go pick-up my wife and threw on my favourite 10-year old sweatshirt. And when I came back and finished part 2, I looked at the footage and...OH MY GOSH...my sweatshirt looks like I was in the cast of "Survivor". Ha ha ha. (But it is still my favourite sweatshirt). Thirdly, these were my very last Lyman 525-grain sabot slugs, So there was only ONE CHANCE to get this video right...no retakes. (Looking at the footage, I wish I could have). And lastly, I am not a professional video doode. So please don't bash me on my funky footage, my funky lighting, and my inability to use the proper terms for the press. I didn't reherse anything. I just grabbed the components and "went for it, spontaneously". My goal here was to show you guys (and others who may fall upon my YouTube video) how the Hornady 366 Auto worked, and that it was possible to reload slugs progressively on it. Shot, target loads, and slugs, are totally possible on this progressive press. But buck shot may pose a challenge, as filler would have to be used, and the shotshell would have to be removed from the press. (Which in it's original configuration would be near impossible to do without screwing-up the whole progressive process). But there are a few "jerry-rigs" I will be doing to my press to get around this hindrence. (But more on that later, at another time). Anyhoo...enjoy the show. In Christ: Raymond

Look up at post #1. In Christ: Raymond PS: Also take into consideration that these were shot using a PUMP ACTION. Low recaoil loads may not always cycle properly on semi-auto shotties. But I will test this the next time I shoot my buddies Benelli M1. Lyman 525-grain Sabot Slug Remmy Premier STS Hulls Hodgdon Universal Powder - 24-grains Winchester W209 primers WAA12F114 Wads

OK, folks, this is not the last post...but it is ALMOST the last post. I went to the indoor range last night to try out a few more shotshell reloads - and this time I brought my camera with me. I was working on a few different things for multi-gun matches (pistol and shotgun), so I could not concentrate on my shotgun 100%. But let me say, the slugs reloads are pretty nice. Below is a picture of my paper target at 25-yards. It will show my slug-zeroing process. The 1st group was aimed at the circle on the far right. It shot a touch high and to the left - so I made an adjustment. The 2nd group was shot at the circle on the far left, and I guess I over adjusted. So a further correction was made. The last group was aimed at center-mass of the head - and it was still a touch to the left. The grouping was acceptable for the moment, as it will ultimately need to be zeroed at the 50-yard range for "true zero". Let me also add a little tid-bit of information here: 1) The first group (3 shots) were shot slowly. But after I established that it was on paper, and the correction was made, the following shots (2nd group and 3rd group) were done standing, and at a rapid fire rate. 2) I know that I am shooting a pump, so low-recoil loads are not that huge a factor in controlling the flip to get back on target (because racking the shotty to get a new shell into the chamber moves the barrel pretty violently)...but the recoil-reduction was still very nice on the shoulder, and it really helps in controlling the "flinch factor". 3) The accuracy was very decent at 25-yard. 4) The last 2 shots on the far left circle were just for play. Ultimately my shotgun will need to be zeroed with these slugs at 50-yards for me to be "match accurate" with 50 to 75 yards shots. But as it stands right now, I am a happy camper with these very controllable slug rounds. I will post more feedback after a 50-yard zero. In Christ: Raymond

I was doing a little number crunching, and thought yall would like to PHYSICALLY see some actual numbers. I have also not chronographed the slugs yet (nor photographed the groups), but soon, folks...soon. In Christ: Raymond 7000 grains = 1 pound 437.5 grains = 1 oz 492.2 grains = 1 1/8 oz 546.9 grains = 1 1/4 oz Lyman Sabot Slugs = 525 grains...which is a touch LIGHTER than 1 1/4 oz loads of 546.9 grains.

QUOTE: "That doesn't work always. Shot is fluid and slugs are not. Be careful this is bad advice". I also considered that the shot would shift and compact itself a bit more. (Because it has space/air in between each BB). But then again, whether it be shot or slug, they are both riding within the wad and not making contact with the inside of the barrel. Also consider that both loads are about the same weight (the Lyman slug being a touch lighter), and the pressure has also been reduced by the lower powder charge. And lastly...I shot it the other day, and it was pretty awesome. Like I mentoned before, I will chrongraph the slugs, and photograph my groupings the next time out. I still believe the information above is pretty solid, especially if you understand the correlation between the wad's payload colum, and the slug/shot# being loaded for each shot. (Did that make sense)? On top of that, like previously mentioned, the powder charge has also been reduced. More feedback later. In Christ: Raymond

What is the formula for converting ounces to grains, or grains to ounces? If I have a 525-grain Lyman slug, is that EXACTLY a 1 1/4 ounce load, or is it a tad lighter or heavier? And by the way, I went to the Lyman Shotshell Reloading book, looked-up 1 1/4oz loads, and found that I am perfectly on track when I reduced the Universal powder load to 25-grains, and then to 24-grains for my Lyman slugs. It makes me feel even better after seeing it in print. I feel better knowing that I can use the same powder for both my loads. (1 1/8oz, #7.5 shot, target...and my 525-grain Lyman sabots). In Christ: Raymond

Excellent tip, Scott. Kudos to you for that one!!! You are the second person who mentioned this manual to me...so I will be looking for it in a moment. In Christ: Raymond PS: Ballistic Products said that the newest revision will be completed in early 2010, and will be shipped at that time. I ordered it and am waiting for it. Thanks again.

Sargenv, I was just meditating on what you wrote earlier (post #15), and I think I like your idea. It makes totally good sense to shoot your trap reloads for practice, and then shoot factory for matches...as this way you will not lose your precious hulls. For slugs, my reloads will have to be used for both, as my weapon will be zero'd for my personal rolls at distances. I have thought about this in the past, and reading your post kicked it back into mind again. Hmmmmm. Thanks. In Christ: Raymond

I am purchasing the slugs. I have not worked-out the cost savings yet...but I got around 1000 of the Lyman slugs a while ago for around .30 cents each, shipped. If you are the same Sargenv (Vince-a-Roonie) from Calguns...you have been super helpful so far!! In Christ: Raymond UPDATE: I just worked it out, and I am paying .40 cents for each completed Lyman slug shotshell.

Thanks for the response. Let me add a few things: 1) I was hoping that someone had already gone this route and produced a tested/verified low recoil load. 2) I have (on hand) 8-pounds of Hodgdon Universal powder that I purchased for this very purpose. I purchased this medium-speed burning powder to propell BOTH my low recoil 1 1/8oz, #7.5 shot, target loads - as well as my slug loads. (Both used for 3-gun competition). 3) I ended-up reducing the 525-grain Lyman slug load posted in the 5th Edition Lyman book by 5% (25 grains)...and then took it one step further and reduced it 7.5%. (24-grains of powder). I just got back from the indoor range a few minutes ago, and I can say that this load was very successful. Since both my loads (target and slug) were the same weight, I loaded half-and-half in the magazine tube to see if I could tell the difference. (The target loads of #7.5 shot were rated at 1250 FPS). Wow...they both had the same felt recoil. The indoor range only went to 20-yards, but my groups were a solid 3" to 4"inches from a standing, unsupported, position. (But I was "bull doo-dooing" with my buddy and not 100% focused on my shooting). I think I was successful in this endeavor. I cannot positively say if this load would be reliable in a semi-auto shotgun, as I was using a Remmy 870P. But the next time I go to the outdoor action range, the load will be tested on a few different semi-autos to test for reliability. They will also be chronographed for speed. Anyhoo...if anyone has any KNOWN low recoil load data for Lyman 525-grain slugs, please share it with us. Thank you. In Christ: Raymond

There are a couple of things to realize here: 1) You are who you are. Either you need to PERMANENTLY change your way of thinking to suite her needs...or stay the way you are. (I believe changing SOME THINGS is a balancing act that helps you to grow together, and teaches her that she is important to you). But then again, she needs to accept who you are, as your personality is not going to change if you get married. 2) You need to accept her for who she is. I hate to say it, but if yall get married...she WILL change. And I guarantee you, based on the 2nd law of thermal dynamics, it will be not for the better. (Anything with order will eventually break down to a state of disorder - known as aging). Guys add a few "sagging areas" in specific spots, as do women in other areas. It's just a fact of life. 3) She will get "gordita" in time, especially if she likes to eat goodies. (Whatever that may be). If yall are younger, her metabolism is keeping everything at bay for the moment. But as she gets older, and keeps the same eating habits...age will not work any longer to hold the inevitable back. She will get gordita in areas. 4) Don't focus so much on her "looks". Like I mentioned earlier, they will eventually go away. Instead, focus on who she is as a person. Is she pretty and superficial? Or is she caring, warm, and someone you would pick to be the right person to raise your sons and daughters down the road? 5) You have to like her. She must FIRST be your best friend. (This is who you will, possibly, be spending the rest of your life with). And if she is constantly getting hung-up on petty things like this, then consider her character. This is what you will have to dea with in the future...but worst. (As she gets more and more comfortable with you, her restraint of her emotions will come down...so get ready for worst). Bottom line, be yourselves, and see where it goes. If this is such a big deal to her (petty as heck if you ask me), then maybe she is not for you. Don't change yourself for her too much. Because in time, you will also lose the willingness to restrain your true feelings to make her all nice and happy...and YOU may not be what she wanted in a man. If life is a balancing act, then marriage is like walking on the razors edge. It looks impossible at first - but once you get each others eccentricities down, you can do it all day, every day, and you will even look forward to it. Be best friends first...then go from there. In Christ: Raymond

Thanks, guys. 1) I do own the Lyman book, and it is great. As a matter of fact, now that I am thinking about it, I believe that is where I read the "not less that 5% powder reduction" rule. 2) I am also a member of SHOTGUNWORLD, but I chose to post here (and in a local shooters website) first...before going there. If I do not receive a good response, I will try them next. 3) In the end, I went with a 7.5% reduction in powder. (24 grains). This is as low as I will go...for now. I did not get a chance to shoot the slugs yet (I had a USPSA match this Sunday morning), but I will give them a try on Monday or Tuesday. I loaded-up 35 rounds with this powder load. I also appreciate the head's-up on the ES info. I will keep a look-out for that when testing. More feedback later. (If yall are even interested). In Christ: Raymond

Hey folks, I have a question for yall. I am reloading Layman 1oz slugs using Hodgdon Universal powder. (Remmy Premier STS hulls, WAA12F114 wads, and Win 209 primers). I have Hodgdon data that places 26-grains of Universal powder for a 1325 FPS load. I tamed it down a bit by reducing the powder to 25-grains. (24.7 grains is a 5% decrease). I was wondering if it is OK to reduce it further, like to 24 grains. (24.05 is a 7.5% reduction in powder). I remember reading somewhere that 5% should be the most you should reduce a known charge for a slug load. Is this correct? Or will a 24-grain load be OK? Just curious to hear a different opinion from shotshell reloaders. In Christ: Raymond PS: Shotshell reloading is very different from pistol and rifle reloading. So if you are not a shotshell reloader with experience on this topic, please hold back your responses.