OUshooter
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Posts posted by OUshooter
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Oushooter,
I don't understand. Given all the stipulations for your scenario, why wouldn't the rest of the poppers be mikes, and FTE's? You said "the PP" would be scored as a mike and FTE. Did you mean that to be plural and to include the rest of the poppers.
Don't mean this to be an argument, just a possible learning opportunity.
Right given those constraints. It would be 1 FTE and 1 Mike per PP left standing. Where I was going was what if a competitor had a MF, and cleared it in say 90sec, but the HC had already come to rest blocking any remaining PP? Would they be penalized for PP left standing? Seems unfair to give out procedurals for not being able to complete the COF, due to stage design.
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So for the sake of the discussion:
- PP 2-4 are not considered disappearing
- PP 2-4 can only be seen/engaged from center port
- The competitor engages left paper, right paper then PP1
- The competitors handgun malfunctions and 2min elapse
In that scenario the PP would be scored as 1 Procedural for FTE and 1 for a Mike? Granted if a competitor goes to 120sec on a stage they aren't winning the new Corvette Stingray. I'm asking merely from a scoring standpoint.
I still think it's a legal stage, not one I would ever run, but legal because I would consider PP2-4 as "disappearing". Which is interesting because everyone will just shoot PP1 and call it good. The time it would take to clear the other 3 PP and wait on the swinging HC aren't worth the points. Which makes one wonder if that was the "intent" of the stage designer? Why would a SD ever include that many points that are just there for fun?
Also, FYI I've personally shot an NROI approved stage that was "legal" and inherently unsafe, that's my opinion but this being America well you know the rest.
But then again the final command is: "The range is clear", not "The range is safe".
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I looked through the book and can't find an justifiable reason that this is an illegal stage. The HC is moving not the targets. I went cover to cover, might have missed something but I think it is legal.
Poorly done IMHO, but legal none the less. Even if you wanted to arbitrate I'm not sure what one would site. Unless you could convince an Arb Comm that it wasn't "reasonable" per 1.1.8. It's not like you can hit PP1 then just sling 3 more rounds and call for calibration. Without a visible scoring hit the call for calibration is denied.
Who knows that HC maybe slower than molasses in dec.
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You will find a theme, in this entire thread, about motosapiens and OUshooter and a couple other guys that are just flat against Production Optic, without anything other than "I'm against it". Do like the rest of do and ignore. The world is not flat. No matter how many times you say it.Your point is valid and well taken.Because we already have too many divisions. I would resist the creation of *any* new division until we clean up what we have. Maybe we just need to stop offering every division at every match. Shoot the popular ones, but if less than 5 people show up for your division, then you get scored in limited or open. I dunno.
I must have missed it somewhere in this long topic. Why does having 6 or 7 divisions in a match pose any problem? I might agree if we had to score by hand, but every club has at least EZWinScore to handle that drudgery. And the rulebook already provides for not recognizing various divisions based on turnout.
I love humor in all its forms.
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I just hope the BOD slaps PO down so hard it goes away so we can get back to shooting the 3 popular divisions we already have.
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And the apparent assumption is that unless you spend all the money for one of those master blasters, you will not have fun, not be able to progress as a shooter, and have zero chance of winning the bass boat that is awarded to the top b-class open shooter at our monthly match. I'm starting to see the same kind of attitude developing around production, where peeps are starting to believe you have no chance of winning the b-class production bass boat (actually it's a motor home at our monthly match) unless you have an accu-shadow or a mafia connection of sufficient power to get a tanfoglio. I just don't buy it.
I think when we are talking about the high cost of open we are referring to the master blasters from STI/AKAI/SVI that shoot .38 Super. At least that's what I think when I'm talking about an expensive open gun.While I am I'm favor of some sort of optics division (just not one tied to the production rill set as it is) I keep seeing people talk about the cost of open. I shoot the gun in my avatar (a glock 22 in 357 sig) in open and am competitive in B class with it. I believe I have just over 1K in it including the mags
What exactly does competitive mean, anyway? Does it mean 'having a chance to win'? Because for all except 10-15 national level shooters, no one is competitive unless they get lucky and the good shooters don't show up to that match. So the rest of us are really just competing against ourselves and trying to improve our skills. Yeah, you might 'win' some local event, but only because the competitive guys weren't there.
Moto couldn't be more on target. A prod gun with a dot will only make you competitive with other shooters of your skill level. If you are B in P, and you add a dot then you are going to be B in PO. And still won't beat the shooters in P that are solid A.
Speaking of on target you know what the fastest growing segment of Handgun buyers is? Women and polymer frames for carry. That's your facts, look it up. And not polymers with dots, glocks xdm m&p these are your leaders. Not pink handles, but down in the business handguns. So if you want to grow the sport follow the industry trends, and slide ride dots are a industry niche not the future.
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I had a pair a clear glasses from Lowe's i think, with tape on left side. I wore them all the time at home, even driving. Took about 6 months for my brain to figure it out, but it was like magic one day.
My advice is to wear the glasses for more than just practice.
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I started out with a $500 turret press setup and broke even in 3 months. Yes my club also routinely runs 30 or more shooters in prod a month, and the only ones that don't reload are the once a month guys that come out for fun not too be competitive.
In the end the members will have the final say, for better or worse the sport will have to live with it.
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Did I really see that folks think PO will be a factory ammo div? Seriously, who shoots any division with factory ammo?
If you shoot 3 matches a month that's close to $130ish/month. Provided you shoot decent ammo, don't forget shipping. That's also zero practice. And since the pro PO crowd is all about being competitive I know there is at least 500rds a month budgeted for practice.
If you can afford $250/month in ammo, then don't cry to me about a $3500 open rig. The guns are the cheapest part of this game.
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Yep, Open Division is fine if you have a few thousand dollars just sitting around doing nothing.
I know you know better than this, and I know you've seen > 2k production guns. PO means there will be 1 platform that dominates, just like open. My glock has shipped some very nice 2011, and I've had my butt whipped by bone stock cz.
Bottom line.... You want a dot shoot open. Our sport growth is tied so closely to political will that we are afraid to express that fact, here especially.
The technology card has no weight. Until rail guns are hand held that is. The top dog gun in open and limited are basically the same as they were 100 years ago. The technology to build and improve them is much better but the basics haven't changed.
This topic is boring me to no end, this is my last post on PO. Carry on.
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We have a class for that is called open. For the record I've checked and there is no "growing trend" towards ccw and red dots. If folks think there is that's great, but the facts don't bear that out.
Actually there is a slight tend for the above mentioned combo. Problem is folks think a red dot is magic. If you can't see a red FO you probably can't see a red dot either. Just sayin.
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First, what grumpy said.
Second, all my wife cares about is "what do I do when someone breaks in". Thankfully the sport of action pistol is just that, a sport.
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I took the advice given earlier about emailing my AD. I can only be hopeful that the BOD will see that they have already accounted for PO, it's called Open. And no I will not share the email exchange since I didn't ask his permission.
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I've not owned a 650 but from what I have seen and read get a 1050. The 650 is a nice piece of gear but not a1050. I have two LNL w/case feeders and short of a1050 wouldn't change. They aren't commercial grade loaders but weren't billed as such.
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We recently went paperless and scores are usually ready within hours of match end time.
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Thanks much for the input and links.
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Does anyone have a list of pistols with a red dot factory option, noncompensated? I keep turning up the same vendor.
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An email to my AD is a great idea. It will be interesting to see what they have to say.
For the record I can't fathom trusting my life to a red dot in a self defense situation.
Most of them co-witness so you don't have to.
hmm....so a competitor in the PO division would have 2 options for target acquisition.
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An email to my AD is a great idea. It will be interesting to see what they have to say.
For the record I can't fathom trusting my life to a red dot in a self defense situation.
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Red dots aren't new, neither is mounting them on a slide. I think the real question is the goal of a production optics division to address a technology issue or a political one?
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And people wonder how the rulebook got so big.
I flat don't get it. You and the rule book have there in black and white. What is it people don't get?
MarkCo hit it right on the head.
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My Club just started running PS, and holy crap Thank You. We haven't had any real issues that weren't user error. I am curious if icore support is in the future? This may have been answered elsewhere so I apologize in advance.
If you need beta testers for updates let me know. I will see what I can do.
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Are you aiming center of mass? If you are... try holding at 6 O'clock. For most people it's a lot easier to hold consistently when they use a 6 O hold.
When you are shooting for groups, as long as it is landing on paper where you can record the group size, it doesn't really matter if you hit the black or not.
Pumpkin on a post, 6 oclock, tends to give me the best groups.
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Well, what is the proper procedure for supporting a glock?
Being polymer framed it can be weird, it messed with me at first too. Glocks aren't precision machinced works of art...they run. I usually do my group/zero practice from supported freestyle, i.e. the mag is resting on the bench. Over the years it gives me the best groups.
Regardless of other posts, the KKM will give better groups 99% of the time over stock, with a drop in.
For USPSA the stock is more accuracy than a body will ever need.
Make ready....
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Wait so you had a modern semi auto pistol with a full magazine inserted, but no round in the pipe----while holstered?
If I'm carrying a gun for SD then you can bet your ass it's loaded----mag and chamber. I realize our sport is a game and doesn't mimic real life, but that is just stupid.