Spray_N_Prey
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Posts posted by Spray_N_Prey
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yeah I know your frustration. I helped run a local match last year and it seemed that there was always someone wanting to "change" the rules to accomodate them.
Sounds like the old farts are trying to gain an advantage. No use in trying to work with them either, it won't do you any good.
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Well tonight I will be practicing. THanks Brian.
I will be heading to the liquor store soon to get my "equipment" for tonight. I will practice until I pass out.
I will be shooting Major tonight (hard stuff), I think beer qualifies as "minor".
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yeah I have to pay my sister to come over and take care of my baby or I can't go shoot
it sucks because it looks like any 2 day matches will be out of the question for a while.but he's worth it.
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that's what I figured. I will let the shooters know.
THanks all,
Shawn G.
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I heard it was to keep the USPSA shooters who favor 5" revo's from taking all the spoils
.LOL - wait I didn't say that.
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Exactly, this is straight from John Amidon, BTW very fast response:
"Shawn,
This is an older classifier that has been around for awhile, long before people started gaming stages by using loop holes in the rule book, such as could be done with this stage, however, you cannot disregard the rules because of it.
Where this a Virginia Count stage, what was stated would be true, but because it is Comstock, rule 9.2.2 comes into play. This could cause someone to shoot two rounds per target and then do a reload and not fire a shot to game it, stacking shots only comes into play in 9.4.5.3 which is VC and Standard exercises. The penalty applied for shooting two, reloading and not firing
A shot be caused they fired all shots before the reload is covered under 10.2.2.
It may be time to retire this classifier as it appears it may have been polluted, even though the classifier book does state that it is the responsibility of the host club to reach out to the Sedro office if they have any questions regarding the intent of the classifier, while the intent in this one is clear, you should fire only one round, the rules do not support it.
John"
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Would this fall under the category of "no stacking"?
the only mention of stacking falls under "virginia count stages", since this is comstock - it mentiones nothing about stacking.
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basically I have two shooters that went from C class to unclassified. I D/L the file again and re-updated it and the only thing it said was that their membership expired in 4/30/09 - would this have anything to do with removing their classification and putting them as "U" class?
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So if you wanted to fire as many rounds as you like at one of the targets before the reload, no problem right? I just couldn't understand the whole "procedural for an extra shot before the reload" on a comstock stage.
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Ok we shot the classifier CM 99-58 Body Guard I, and to make a long story short, it's a comstock classifier that goes as follows:
Upon start signal, engage T1-T6 with one round each target, perform a mandatory reload and re-engage each target with one round each.
I was told that if you shoot more than one round before the reload at a target, it's a procedural, but you can shoot as many rounds as you want AFTER the reload. I argued that, NO if it's comstock you can shoot 10 rounds each paper if you wanted before the reload as long as you re-engaged them again with one round after the reload.
I had a couple of guys tell me that you couldn't shoot more than one round without a procedural before the reload and that the stage is considered "virginia count" before the reload and it was because of stacking.
Please chime in.
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sorry if this is close to what someone else has posted, I did skip through more than half of the posts, but if your going to run "fun matches", DO NOT call it IPSC or IDPA style, call it a "fun match" or "action pistol" or "outlaw".
1. Your going to have some shooters maybe show up that actually do follow the rules of IPSC or IDPA and might be a little pissed off when you start making up your own rules.
2. It's cheating IPSC / IDPA by using their name and not by paying your dues.
3. it WILL confuse new shooters into thinking they know the rules of that type of disipline and then when they get to a real IPSC / IDPA match might just find themselves going home early (DQ) or hard feelings because of the different rules, etc..
My local club puts on a "fun shoot" that they use to call "ipsc type shooting" and I was very much against that and now it's a fun shoot action pistol. Not every club wants to join uspsa/idpa and that's fine, just don't plegerize their name. (our club also has a monthly USPSA match, the fun shoot is weekly).
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JThompson,
I wish that I would have been more careful to choose my post, I would have changed it to shooting .40 or .357 sig in production, instead of 9mm, BUT I truely am glad that we came up with a scenerio that has so many rule knowledge shooters and RO's stumped. I will try to keep them coming....
although this is a hypothetical scenerio, i'm VERY, VERY surprised someone hasn't came up with this yet. Although the scenerio is "completely made-up" there was something that happened that could have warranted this in a local match, a police officer was shooting production (not familiar with USPSA too much) and was shooting his duty gun and I saw that he was loading to full capacity and was shooting in production. He was not trying to cheat, just only shot probably 5-6 matches and where this happened, the RO's would have never caught this, I happen to attend this match that I usually travel out of town to shoot another and just happen to catch it. It was pointed out and the shooter didn't even know he did something wrong and going to open class was no big deal, but when I was talking to another buddy about it after the match, the point was he was shooting "duty ammo" which was hollow point speer gold dots, which would easily make major and that's where the "what if" came about. After a short conversation, we came up with "well why couldn't the shooter just do that in 9mm also? since if this scenerio might come up the 9mm would be more likely than someone shooting "self defense ammo". I should have used that scenerio rather than saying "9mm". I think it would have cut out alot of threads, but the point is still the same.
Can the shooter claim major "no matter what caliber" ? and I don't think that has been answered in the rule book and maybe should be something that the rules committee might need to look at.
Hopefully I haven't set off a chain reaction of people that when get bumped to open, decide to shoot "major",
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I prefer NOT to post right after Brian because his name on a thread brings a lot more eyes onto a topic. But...
Here's a classic by TGO that should be required reading:
http://www.robleatham.com/Rob%20Leatham%20...the%20range.htm
hehe there should be a flag at sub-forum with an all-seeing eye or something when BE has posted in a thread.
I tend to agree more people will be reading your thread when the man speaks.That is an excellent link Eric, It seems like that is always happening to me. Sights dead on pull trigger bullet goes nowhere close.
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Antichrome, Need to borrow a Revo for this match?
I sure would like some pizza for this match
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You might try changing bullet weights. You have to find a combination that works for you with your gun. I have glocks that have over 100,000 through them and I have shot 11lb recoil spring in them and have never had an issue. In the 40's I use 13lb but it is according to the load I am shooting. In the 9's I us 115gr because of the snapper load and I have no lagging which work for my style. When I shoot 147's I have an issue of shooting 3's of d's because of lagging time. Try different loads with different springs until you find a combo that works for you
Mike
but if you have your stance, grip correct should this matter?
I thought (and could be wrong) that that's called timing your shots and therefor your not seeing your sights correctly, you've just got it timed right when the gun recoils to "double tap". Is this correct?
I'm just guessing here, but if Brian Enos or Duane or Flexmoney pick up any gun with any spring / bullet combo they aren't going to have this problem because they've got everything down correctly. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
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haha thanks Brian, I went clicking through there to check it out and realized it was my own post.
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yeah a friend of mine who is very, very accurate (5" groups at 40 yards freestyle) told me he will load up some .357 magnum's that are smokin' hot and it will help with the flinch thing. He is a big believer of shooting something really hot to help with lower recoil. I just hate to think that i'm flinching because of recoil. I shoot 9, 40 and 45 and thought recoil never really bothered me.
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Duane, I have been dry firing like a madman - and I have found a sweet spot in my trigger finger tip that keeps the gun from moving at pressing the trigger fast. I will keep trying this and was wondering if instead of just dry firing, if it would help taking a .22 pistol out and shooting some slow fire with this also? I just need to beat it in my head to do this when i'm out at the range and not just sitting in my house.
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Ah, but that's the rub here: the competitor didn't have to declare anything at signup, just that he was shooting Production. It doesn't matter what your actual PF is, it's all scored minor.
Troy
that's a good point. I see plenty of people that don't mark minor when shooting production and EZWIN doesn't even allow you to put major when scoring production, it darkens out the option box.
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It was suggested to me once that with me using such a light spring for my Glocks (11 lb ISMI) in both production and limited major, that it could be causing the gun to move before the bullet comes out of the barrel. Is this true? I am using 147 grain bullet for production and 180 grain for limited.
P.S. I am not trying to put blame on my problems (jerking the trigger) on this, I just wonder if this also could contribute to the problem. I did notice on my 1911 that it was still to the right some, it wasn't nearly as bad as with my glocks.
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Well I happened to be watching the shooter and the targets were from right to left (3 in a row side by side) and I could tell that when the shooter went past the wall he as engaging the target on the left from his gun angle and the angle from the shots before that. I called it 2 mikes and didn't give him a failure to engage. My buddy (who alway's likes bringing up the weird scenerios- see my other post "shooter bumped to open, declares major" said that he didn't know if that was the right call since I couldn't PROVE which targets he shot past the wall. So I was just trying to get the correct input on here.
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Any "bumper hunching" cracks will be frowned upon...
I did see a 68 Buick Electra duece and a quarter that had your name all over it.......
Enough of the thread drift though. Since the orange fencing is considered hard cover wouldn't any shot that goes through it not be scored? But how does the RO determine which shots don't count as hits. If he couldn't score the target accurately would it be a reshoot? If so, what would prevent a "cheater" from shooting rounds through it if he knew he had a bad run? And finally would that shooter be Dq'd for unsportsmanlike conduct? If so, how do you prove he did it on purpose?
Right up what I was thinking on this one, not so much the DQ for UC but since it's the orange netting, bullets can pass right through it without distorting the bullets at all. This is why I wanted plywood walls, but the RM decided for this netting. It was supposed to be cheaper but nothing but headaches so far.
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So there shouldn't be any problem with breaking out a chrono and having just one shooter have to shoot through it?
I just thought there would be some issues there. Usually someone at the range does have a chrono.
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Declare major, use hi-cap mags now ... what's the difference?
It's a production gun shooting in open class ... that's punishment enough.
Open Class....
SO...Gary, how would you handle this?
And remember this isn't something that happened, just me and a buddy trying to come up with things that might possibly come up in a match so we are prepared to handle this. So no i'm not trying to GAME EVERYTHING like someone else mentioned, i'm the CRO at our local club and just want to have some things covered that could come up someday.
it sucks because it looks like any 2 day matches will be out of the question for a while.
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