racer-x
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Posts posted by racer-x
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23 hours ago, tomv said:
I'm developing a 9 major load for my STI DVC Open gun. Looks like 8.5 gr of HS6 under a 124 gr Precision Delta JHP, CCI spp and 1.165 COAL gets me 171+ PF. A local shooter warned me about using HS6 because of excessive heating of the gun. He has switched to Autocomp for his 9 major loads because of this.
Is this a valid concern?
Addressing your initial concerns on HS-6 and excessive heating, that is not my experience at all. I've had no signs that HS-6 burns any hotter than anything else in 9major loadings.
The only popular Open major powder that I've used that IS noticeably hotter burning is VV 3N37, but not to a fault. Just need to let your gun cool off more during summer practice sessions (I don't recommend 3N37 for 9 major either).
HS-6 is a great choice for 9Major. It's a close 2nd choice behind AA#7 in my book.
My advice is to try working up a load with 115's and HS-6 or AA#7.
Lighter bullets=more powder=more gas to work the comp effectively.
The load I like best is 10.6grains AA#7 under a MG 115 JHP @ 1.165 OAL. This is around 1500fps in my guns and shoots very flat and predictable.
Close second for me is 8.6grains HS-6 under a MG 115 JHP @ 1.165 OAL and 1500fps as well.
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Seems very likely that your barrel is on the slower side.
If so, it's no problem, but illustrates why you should always work up loads in your gun.
I have an STI Trubor barrel (no popple holes) in one of my guns that takes .8grain more to make the same PF as my KKM barrel with 3 popple holes.
It takes 8.8 grains of HS-6 to get a MG 124 JHP @1.165 OAL to 172 PF in that gun.
KKM barrel will do that same PF with only 8.0 grains HS-6.
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1 hour ago, Tokarev said:
Any recommendations for a 124gr JHP loaded to 1.145" OAL?
7.8gr or so as start?
Also, where are you guys seeing published Viht data for 3N38 and lighter bullets? All I'm seeing on the website is 147gr data.
TIA
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
I worked up some short 3N38 loads with MG 124 JHP's last spring.
Started at 8 grains and that got me 1300fps / 161PF @ 1.135 OAL in my CK Thunder (KKM barrel and 3 popple holes).
My peak velocity (1375fps / 170.5PF) with 3N38 was with 8.5 grains at 1.135 OAL using MG 124 JHP's.
Increasing the charge above 8.5 yielded reduced velocities.
This was nice shooting, but a pain to load and not the 172-174 PF I was trying to get in my gun.
Highest I could get 115's was 168 PF and that was with the case as full as my 1050 could drop (9.8 grains).
LOT's of powder spilled everywhere - interesting experiment, but definitely a no-go for me.
Another problem with 3N38 in 9major is that the bullets tend to push back up after you load them - OAL increases due to very compressed load.
Assuming you are loading at 1.145 OAL so that your bullets don't contact barrel lead, this would be a real problem for you.
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19 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:
CCI's are harder, I just made sure I pushed the handle all the way on my 550 this time.
I think you are on to the solution - technique. Make sure you always push firmly on the handle for the primer seating on 550 - if your push felt a little wimpy, do it again before advancing to next station. Just part of running a 550 effectively.
I've loaded just over 100K CCI primers on my 550 without issue after learning this same lesson early on.
No way to mess this up (seating depth) with my 1050, but the 550 is a very reliable & versatile tool. Still use mine every week.
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2 minutes ago, Steve RA said:
Primers not seated all the way.
+1, 2nd try
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Liking this powder the best for 9 major now and got my first 8 pound container of it last week.
Works the comp awesome with 115's and gets extra points for being a slower burn rate than any other powder I've considered for 9 major.
My powder bar spacer mod (above) made loading much less messy & faster than loading 3n38.
I chrono'd my load with the new batch of powder yesterday and it was consistent with my first 1 pound batch I got for testing way back.
This is always a good precaution since I've seen some extreme variations between batches of powder.
New batch had the same avg fps/PF with a lower extreme spread over 10 shots.
Montana Gold 115JHP at 1.165 OAL
AA#7 10.60 grains
Old batch powder (1#):
Avg. FPS=1501 (172.6PF)
ES= 27
temp=80F
New batch powder(8#):
Avg. FPS=1501 (172.6PF)
ES= 24
temp=59F
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Let's talk about powder spillage...
AA#7 is a super fine grain powder that leaks quite a bit around my powder bar causing:
-inconsistent charge weights
-mess/waste with powder spillage
-jams up movement of powder bar
-damages/galls powder bar
I tried my Arendondo powder bar that is a tighter fit and this helped some. Solved this problem completely when I was loading another fine grain powder (True Blue), but was not quite enough for AA#7 on my equipment (Dillon 550 & 1050).
Next I tried adding a piece of tape to the top of the powder bar spacer to tighten up the tolerances a little. First try with green painters masking tape (.005" thickness) was perfect. Loaded several hundred rounds since with MUCH more consistent charges and no powder spilled on top of my tool heads.
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PM sent for part 2.
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Sight it in for 50 yards and you should be dead on at 20 yards as well... and .0375" right of your point of aim at 25, and left .075 of POA at 100 yards.
The off-set is a non-issue.
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Supposed to be offset .075" on a standard frame.
I do not notice it at all when shooting.
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10 hours ago, echotango said:
Thanks. From my old racing days. If the screws start to turn loose, the paint cracks.
I do the same - thought I was looking at a pic of one of my own guns
I learned that trick in my MX racing days way back.
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I noticed that as well.
You can see the Montana Gold JHP imprint on the flat area (AA7 barrel) where the ramp is cut on the other (HS6 barrel).
I haven't had any FTF's with either, but it seems like that ramp ought to be cut lower.
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54 minutes ago, Steelix said:
I shoot a CK open gun 38sc. My gun is never that dirty after 200 rounds and all I shoot is HS6. I just cleaned mine after a little over 400 rounds and mine was not that dirty. Let me see if I can find my bore patch.
'Not that dirty' as compared to the above pics?
They didn't seem too bad, but the camera and bright lights accentuate every spec.
Also, you can see in the pics that the guns are still very well oiled after 200 rounds. Maybe that is why it looks dirtier?
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52 minutes ago, andersonj55126 said:
How do you think HS-6 and AA7 compare for dot movement?
Very similar performing. In my test, I shot a few familiar drills and several variations on a simple 12 round stage.
1-2 mags per gun and then switch guns & loads, repeating the same drills. Both guns are setup near identical (1.75 trigger pull, 17# mainspring, 8#variable rate recoil spring). Watched the dot, called my shots & focused on getting points at speed.
- Leatham drill - my favorite drill to test & learn a guns recoil traits ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLRxohRdIys&app=desktop )
- 3 paper targets far-near-medium (25yds-5yds-10yds)
Best & average times between guns/loads were within my margin of error. Both loads tracked great. The AA#7 'seemed' a little flatter, but I did not shoot better points or faster times with it, even in the Leatham drill litmus test. My performance maintaining a consistent grip, waiting for acceptable sight picture & exercising trigger control was the deciding factor in the times & points.
Also, examining the empty cases of each load didn't show a noticeable difference in primer flattening.
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Dirty gun pics
And lastly, the corresponding paper towel I used to wipe down the slide, barrel & frame, and the 1st bore patch used to clean each barrel.
This side by side comparison showed me that my perception of AA#7 as being really dirty, too dirty, etc.. were not that Accurate.
Not a significant difference that I could see in this test. A few more unburned grains of powder in the barrel of the AA#7 gun. HS-6 gun had a fine smoked or sooty residue on the gun as well.
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I've tried AA#7 a few times over the years in various open guns but have steered away from it each time due to it being dirty and worried that it would hurt the reliability of my gun. Earlier this year, I worked up some major PF 9 loads for my CK gun with MG 115 & 124's. Gun tracked great with these loads, but I had 1 malfunction where some of the unburnt particles got into my trigger bow area and limiting trigger travel so that I could not break shot. Not for me...
I found the particle in the trigger bow area and saved it. Looked like a tiny blackened piece of corn cob. I've since found similar particles in my slide and other places they don't belong while shooting HS-6. One day reloading, I figured out where these particles are REALLY coming from - my JHP bullets! Seems that the bullets are tumbled as final cleanup prior to being boxed & shipped.
My point here is, I wrongly pinned that failure to fire on the powder. AA#7 has a lot of great qualities for 9 major.
- lots of gas works comp very well
- slow (below 3N38 on all the burn rate charts I've seen, added safety factor at major PF)
- very dense (13.8 grains fit in a 9mm case full to top)
- easy to load fast (my 10.7 grain load doesn't fill case so much that I need to slow down)
- inexpensive compared to VV, about the same cost as WAC & HS-6.
problem areas
- dirty - how dirty is it ? see pics below
- very dense and fine grained - leaks a little around regular Dillon powder bar (plastic Arrendondo bar is much better)
HOW DIRTY is AA#7 compared to HS-6?
I worked up some 174 PF 115 loads for my guns and wanted to test how dirty AA#7 is compared to the HS-6 I've been shooting all summer. Granted, HS-6 is considered by many as dirty, but I haven't had any malfunctions attributed to it either.
For this test, I started with 2 clean guns, 200 AA#7 (174PF-115) rounds & 200 HS-6 (174PF-115) rounds. Shot only the AA#7 in one gun and only HS-6 in the other.
Disassembled & cleaned both guns after the practice session; taking pics along the way.
First off, a recent pic of some offending particles sneaking their way into my gun via the JHP.
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20 minutes ago, jtrump said:
Hey Racer-X, I mounted this just like it was mounted on my old cheely mount/DP pro, according to you the way I have mine mounted is not correct.
I've got short screw first hold, 3 long screws and short screw in back, meaning only the very front and back screws are shorties, the rest are long. Also my *thumb rest [generic]* is mounted farther to the rear, the front short screw is visible and the back short screw is covered.
This isn't my gun, but this is the way mine is mounted now. I moved my rest to the back position as well - much better control over gun.
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If you don't have 3 short screws dedicated to holding only the optic mount to the gun, your accuracy is very likely to suffer like mine did. Super tight and it didn't matter.
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What mount and optic (slide ride or RTS2) are you using?
Are you using a thumb rest?
Can you post some pics of your setup?
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4 hours ago, HI5-O said:
For new brass I don’t use case lube. Try a few with and without and you decide.
+1
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1 hour ago, rlrock said:
Thanks for the help! I changed one over but have to get shorter screws for the other. I've always had problems with the mount/pedal shaking loose, even with red Loctite.
I will let you know how I fare.
Your welcome.
You can use a Dremel and cutoff wheel to size the screws perfectly. I like to start with longer screws here anyway so I can have the maximum amount of thread surface and screw ends perfectly flush with inside of frame.
The key to get the screws to hold is getting the threads in your frame and on screws 100% clean first.
90% or higher isopropyl alcohol works great for this. Dip small pieces of paper towel in the alcohol and then thread it in/out of each hole. Follow up with tight fitting dry pieces. For the screws, thread them into an alcohol soaked paper towel applying pressure to threads with your finger nails. Repeat with a dry paper towel.
HS6 for 9 major
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
Yes I have.
AA#7 - MG 124 JHP @ 1.165 OAL
9.7 grains is 1384fps in my CK Open Thunder's (KKM barrel with 3 popple holes).