Blueridge
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Posts posted by Blueridge
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Ghost Dog: Way Of The Samurai
Starring Forrest Whitaker
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I would also have to agree with BritinUSA and R2D2. And mostly with Flatland, although I would say slide open or slide shut doesn't matter still DQ.
Dis-assembled barrel only, I am OK with that.
Ah, but what about revolvers? Would the shooter have to remove the cylinder (dissasemble) before they could check the barrel under the idea that you suggest?
While I don't think that pointing a firearm at yourself is a good idea in general, checking for a blockage in a barrel with the firearm unloaded and the action open (or the cylinder swung out) would be an acceptable action.
Revolvers aren't semi-autos. A semi-auto with the slide back, could have the slide release bumped, the slide slam shut, the hammer follow, and bang.....
Hard to see the same thing happening if a revolver's cylinder closes.....
You are quite correct. My point in posting was to highlight the idea that revolvers were not considered in the initial post. You clearly recognize the difference between revolvers and semi-autos when it come to safety issues, but with the majority of participants using semi-autos sometimes the differences are overlooked.
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I would also have to agree with BritinUSA and R2D2. And mostly with Flatland, although I would say slide open or slide shut doesn't matter still DQ.
Dis-assembled barrel only, I am OK with that.
Ah, but what about revolvers? Would the shooter have to remove the cylinder (dissasemble) before they could check the barrel under the idea that you suggest?
While I don't think that pointing a firearm at yourself is a good idea in general, checking for a blockage in a barrel with the firearm unloaded and the action open (or the cylinder swung out) would be an acceptable action.
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I am curious to see what the match shirts will look like. Will it be a single stack & revolver themed shirt representing both matches, or will there be a shirt designed for each.
On another note I hope to see the match full and look forward to seeing all of the revolvers spinning.
I am getting ready to begin reloading the ammunition that I plan to use for the match in the next few weeks. Right after I get past this US Fencing Nationals qualification match I have coming up.
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Since you are looking for used I would suggest a Beretta 92 or a Smith and Wesson M&P. Both are reliable and would work well for SSP.
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I have never walked out of a movie. Even the bad ones that I have seen were not to the point that I would walk out.
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I like that the MCC match is a classifier along with it having a classifier stage in it. I feel that the match being a classifier is a better measure of what I can do than individual classifier stages.
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Both USPSA and IDPA provide the opportunity to work on gun handling skills. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. Being able to make tough shots imparts confidence in the shooter, possibly leaving one less thing to worry about should there ever be a real life self defense situation.
They are both games and scores are kept to show who had the better day. What you get out of participation is determined by why you are participating. If by participating you become better in your gun handling skills, then you have gained something useful beyond the shooting sports.
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That is a sweet looking handgun!!!
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From a pure mechanical standpoint a revolver is faster than any auto pistol. With an auto you must wait for the slide to go through its functions before the next round can be fired. With a revolver you can engage the trigger as soon as the round is fired to fire the next round.
Basically a (double action) revolver fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. There is a required delay with an auto before the next shot can be fired. The difference between the two is nominal to almost all of us.
It comes down to capacity, as most people feel more comfortable with the higher capacity of an auto.
I certainly understand the comfort in capacity angle for the LEO, but those of us that may find ourselves "down range" from a bad guy would appreciate a little consideration as well.
Oh, I am all for effective bullet placement. knowing that you have 10-20 rounds per magazine at your disposal is not an excuse for not trying to make every shot count. I chose to shoot a revolver in competition to force myself to make every shot count. I found that mindset transfered over to when I shoot autos.
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From a pure mechanical standpoint a revolver is faster than any auto pistol. With an auto you must wait for the slide to go through its functions before the next round can be fired. With a revolver you can engage the trigger as soon as the round is fired to fire the next round.
Basically a (double action) revolver fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. There is a required delay with an auto before the next shot can be fired. The difference between the two is nominal to almost all of us.
It comes down to capacity, as most people feel more comfortable with the higher capacity of an auto.
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Looking forward to participating again after missing the 2012 match.
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How about this...While we discuss the topic of 6+ shot revolvers we get the 2013 Revolver Nationals Match full. From there we can see how interest in the division is going.
I personally don't have a problem with 7 or 8 shot revolvers coming into useage for USPSA, I just have no interest personally to use one. The advantage of an 8 shot over a 6 shot is debateable, and thus will be debated. Games have rules and parameters by which those interesed choose to abide by. If changes need to be made they will be at some point, and then the rules and parameters will allow for different options. It took this long for a stand alone Revolver Nationals to come to fruition, and the requested consideration for 8 shot revolvers seems to be the next hurdle. Seems like a bit of getting the cart before the horse at the moment. Let us get through the Revolver Nationals so that it can be shown what the current interest is, and then the 8 shot revolver issue can be addressed.
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During the last week I was flying out of the Des Moines airport, and happened to see a veteran police officer in a Des Moines Police Department uniform with a S&W 686 and speedloaders on his belt!
It does my heart good to know that there are still a few bona fide law enforcement guys out there who still choose to report to duty with their trusty wheelguns. It was sorta like spotting a bald eagle in the sky.
Out of curiosity, how many speedloaders did he have on his belt? With most LEO that carry autos carrying 2spare mags I would guess that it would be at least 3 speedloaders if not more.
I used to carry Safariland Comp I loaders in a stack pouch giving me 6 in the cylinder and 24 on the belt. Then there was the cruiser bag
That would be what I would expect. Given the possibility of multiple threats facing a LEO, having at least 24 rounds between the cylinder and belt pouches sounds reasonable. Given the space constraints on the belts of LEO's, and the difference between speedloader and magazine capacities. Even the best shot needs to take into account that the threat(s) may take cover in a firefight, leading to some shots ending up in cover the threat is behind.
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My initial post from the other thread that Carmoney quoted explained my definition of competitive. It is that a revolver shooter of COMPARABLE CLASSIFICATION could be competitive with an auto shooter of same in production division. Being competitive does not mean being able to win the overall in production division. I'll likely never win overall in revolver division or production division, but I still consider myself competitive (even using my Ruger Alaskan).
Ask anyone who has come in behind revolver shooters in production or overall if they believe that a revolver is competitive against them. I believe that they will have to say yes.
(as a side note)
I am a 12 time (out of the last 13years) qualifier to and competitor in the US Fencing Nationals. I have never finished in first place, but that does not mean that I am not competitive in the events that I compete in. Winning overall and being competitive are two different things.
This issue arose on the other thread where we are discussing the pros and cons of possibly adding the 8-shot minor revolver as an option for Revolver Division. Several responders in that discussion suggested that the place for 8-minor revolvers is Production Division. I thought it was worthy of a separate discussion, hence this new thread.....
8-shot Revolvers are never going to be seriously competitive in Production, at anything other than the local schlep level.
I have to disagree with you on this Carmoney. There are revolver shooters using 6 shots at every classification level who can give auto shooters of like classification a run for their money (aka. be competitive with them). Using an 8 shot revolver would likely make them even more competitive in production.
Blueridge, I think you've been breathing too many exhaust fumes off your Ruger Alaskan again. ;-)
Take two competitors of roughly equal capability, and have one shooter run the match with an 8-shot revolver. The other guy shoots with a Production-legal autoloader. I contend the guy with the auto is going to win virtually every time.
Unlike many of the active revolver shooters on here, I compete a lot in Production and Single Stack divisions. I know how those divisions compare to Revolver.
I'm also willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a A-class shooter in Production, OK? So I'm a decent shooter in Production, but nothing particularly special. Here's my challenge:
I'll shoot any 2013 major USPSA match with my XD9 heads-up against anybody who is willing to shoot an iron-sighted 8-shot revolver in Production Division, and I'll willing to put $100 on it.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham might beat me. But those guys are at least 10-15% ahead of me in Revo. Saddle them with 8-shot 627s and moonclips and give me a 10-shot pistol with a sweet trigger and faster reloads, and I'll still give them a very decent run for it.
I think I can beat everybody else.
Who wants to take me up on my challenge?
Carmoney, I'll admit that I don't think that I have the skills to take you up on that bet. That still does not mean that I or anyone else can't be competitive in Production division shooting an 8 shot revolver. I don't think that someone beating you with the parameters you set would change your mind. At best if you lost you would simply eat crow and move on.
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My initial post from the other thread that Carmoney quoted explained my definition of competitive. It is that a revolver shooter of COMPARABLE CLASSIFICATION could be competitive with an auto shooter of same in production division. Being competitive does not mean being able to win the overall in production division. I'll likely never win overall in revolver division or production division, but I still consider myself competitive (even using my Ruger Alaskan).
Ask anyone who has come in behind revolver shooters in production or overall if they believe that a revolver is competitive against them. I believe that they will have to say yes.
(as a side note)
I am a 12 time (out of the last 13years) qualifier to and competitor in the US Fencing Nationals. I have never finished in first place, but that does not mean that I am not competitive in the events that I compete in. Winning overall and being competitive are two different things.
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Mark, I know they are legal. that is the point. If all these people want to shoot their 8 shots, why is nobody doing it???
Because 8-shot Revolvers are never going to be seriously competitive in Production, at anything other than the local schlep level.
Believe you can. Believe you can't. Either way you are right. . .
I have to disagree with you on this Carmoney. There are revolver shooters using 6 shots at every classification level who can give auto shooters of like classification a run for their money (aka. be competitive with them). Using an 8 shot revolver would likely make them even more competitive in production.
I have read several good ideas on ways to try and improve the participation in USPSA by revolver shooters. The ultimate challenge will be to impliment ones that will do the most good. Even if 7 & 8 shot revolvers are allowed in the future I'll likely
won't use one by personal choice. I just don't have any interest in shooting one. I will continue to shoot 6 shot revolvers. I am just stubborn that way.
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During the last week I was flying out of the Des Moines airport, and happened to see a veteran police officer in a Des Moines Police Department uniform with a S&W 686 and speedloaders on his belt!
It does my heart good to know that there are still a few bona fide law enforcement guys out there who still choose to report to duty with their trusty wheelguns. It was sorta like spotting a bald eagle in the sky.
Out of curiosity, how many speedloaders did he have on his belt? With most LEO that carry autos carrying 2spare mags I would guess that it would be at least 3 speedloaders if not more.
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How about instead of changing the rules for revolver division, the rules for open be changed. Add Open revolver category for any revolvers with a capacity over 6 or using other than iron sights.
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I am outside the norm I guess. I use a Ruger Alaskan shooting 45 Colt and use it in IDPA &USPSA. After I competed in the 2011 Memphis Charity Challenge on Saturday I shot the Sunday club match with my Ruger, but shot Production division. I intend on making C class in Production using my Ruger just to see if I can do it. I won't stop shooting revolver division, but any chance that I get I'll be shooting classifiers with my revolver in production division.
I would love to shoot my revolver in production division at a match that did not recognize revolver division. I don't expect that I would finish close to the top of the standings (top ten), but I don't expect that I would come in in the bottom ten (maybe not even the bottom fifteen) either.
Shooting revolver is the biggest challenge I believe and watering it down just so it is easier to handle the eight shot arrays is counterproductive to me.
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The Memphis Charity Challenge is always a blast due to all of the participants and staff. As serious as the revolver competitors are about winning there is always an atmosphere of good natured fun. I look forward to that same atmosphere at the revolver nationals. I hope that the match fills up to show how the USPSA members support the opportunity to have this dedicated match.
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I started running my S&W 66 for IDPA over the summer and love using a revolver for IDPA. It adds a degree of challenge and changes your thinking completely. What was a simple point A to point B to point C stage with an auto takes more planning for reloads. The best suggestion I can make is to get good at reloads with retention, definitely helps to pick up some time.
As for the chambers getting sticky, brush it once or twice during the match. After a big match or a long day of practice give it a good scrubbing with solvent, I still like Hoppes 9. If it is really bad, pull the cylinder and soak it in solvent overnight (don't do this on nickel plated). I can't really speak to the Speer ammo, but if you do any reloading for it I have great luck with W231 under Bayou Bullets.
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Why would I have to do a reload with retention with a revolver? You mean shoot 4 rounds dumb the rest then load 6 more? It would seem like unless I am lightening quick with a reload I'd be better off shooting until I'm dry.
How do I remove the cylinder in a 686? I'm not opposed to filling a jar with solvent and letting it soak over night after a match.
The majority of IDPA stages are created with handguns in mind and not revolvers. Between points of cover arrays break down better for auto shooters, while often leaving the revolver shooter to run dry when not at a point of cover. Reloading with retention is seen as working better than reloading when empty, as you work to limit the times that you are caught out in the open with an empty revolver. I shoot my revolver dry and then reload myself, as trying to retain live ammo while also trying to reload my revolver simply seems to add a level of complexity that I don't want to constantly deal with. If a shooter is using moonclips instead of speedloaders, then reloading with retention works better. I use speedloaders and thus choose not to add this action to my common group of actions if I don't have to. I can reload with retention pretty well, I just choose not to unless I have to by stage requirements.
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There is an airsoft dan wesson revolver that I have seen (and have considered getting), but I decided to use the money on reloading supplies instead.
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I am starting over again in revolver shooting - used to shoot a 586 in USPSA some time ago. I have to start load development over again for a new gun, using 158 grain bear creek RN most likely as I still have some left and liked them well enough for accuracy and for guiding into the cylinder.
The memory of holding the cylinder open for the last reload of a high round stage is still with me - That thing can get HOT. Damn near dropped it once it hurt so bad. Wondering if there are powders that burn cooler than my old 231 loads that might not get the gun as hot.
If anyone has a pet load or good starting point for a 158 grain minor load I'm all ears.
Just curious to know what the load your were using was and what power factor were you making. I just titegroup, which does burn hot from my experience, but I just backed off the load that I was using and the hot cylinder problem went away. I still make major power factor and did not have to change the powder that I was using. If you can back off the powder load and still make major (which I presume that you are trying to do), then I would see if the long course cylinder heating problem goes away. No need to change powders if you can simply adjust the powder load and get the result you want.
Favorite Movie for Best Fighting, and Shooting Scenes
in Books, Movies, TV & Music
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For shooting I would have to say Equilibrium, Act of Valor, and Unforgiven
Close Combat I would have to say Unleashed (aka. Danny the Dog), Serenity (the Summer Glau bar fight scene), and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon