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Seth

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    Avoiding 180 Problems

    in Stage Design

    Posted

    In the end, the stage designer cannot Bandaid bad gun handling. I always said that my principle job as MD and stage designer was to account for every piece of lead that was fired at that days match. The tools in the chest are limited and are getting more limited every year with more concern over liability and a steady influx of inexperienced shooters.

    With that said, the rules allow targets from 0-90* from the median backstop. 10.5.2 forbids a competitor from engaging any target that's available beyond that fixed angle. Simple as that.

    Avoiding 180 Problems

    in Stage Design

    Posted · Edited by Seth

    << It doesn't say that shouldn't be available from angles beyond legal.

    So "will not cause competitors to breach safe angles of fire" says something other that you shouldn't be available from angles beyond safe?

    Again, I am just using the very recent training where the NROI instructor spent over an hour on 180 traps. Then at the range going over stages and getting the RM to adjust targets to fit that interpretation.

    I disagree with that interpretation and have had it explained by similarly qualified folks differently.

    A target on the line will NOT cause the competitor to break the rules. If they follow the rules the shot is kosher. The target doesn't make the competitor break the rules if it's inside the 90.

    Are we not responsible for our actions?

    Avoiding 180 Problems

    in Stage Design

    Posted

    If placing targets along the 180 suddenly creates a dangerous situation, then you shouldn't have targets at 120 either. The stage needs to fit the bay and be safe. There needs to be a huge margin for mistakes.

    I'm not guessing here either or waxing poetic. I ran the Fredericksburg match in Virginia for 2 years plus was on the executive staff of multiple area 8s and va/md sections. I've put 30 or so matches on the ground.

    Fredericksburg puts on some great matches but ever notice how each one starts with a stern warning about how many shooters were DQed at the last match for breaking the 180?

    It drives me crazy because it's completely unnecessary and has inspired me to take some examples of stages to write an article for Front Site called, the 180 trap. I haven't started writing it yet but I am inspired non the less.

    Also, ensure don't get me started on the corner bay declared to have a "floating 180."

    No. I never noticed a stern lecture as I no longer run the match nor do I shoot it.

    The rule you keep quoting still doesn't say what you want it to. It says targets need to be available from legal angles. It doesn't say that shouldn't be available from angles beyond legal.

    Floating 180 aside, the stage designer has 180* of placement to work with. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it illegal. As I've said repeatedly, the margin for safety better be substantially greater than 90* from the backstop.

    Avoiding 180 Problems

    in Stage Design

    Posted

    If placing targets along the 180 suddenly creates a dangerous situation, then you shouldn't have targets at 120 either. The stage needs to fit the bay and be safe. There needs to be a huge margin for mistakes.

    I'm not guessing here either or waxing poetic. I ran the Fredericksburg match in Virginia for 2 years plus was on the executive staff of multiple area 8s and va/md sections. I've put 30 or so matches on the ground.

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