223 sizing problem

[GSPBirdDog]

I had a post below asking what method you guys use to size while using a case gage...... I am using a seperate dillon toolhead to size and trim my 223 brass and have been having problems with the brass fitting the way i want in the dillon case gage I am running a dillon size /deprime die in station one and have it set a c**t hair high so my dillon trim die can do the final sizing as well as have the case supported well while being trimmed. The problem is ......I took everything apart to clean the dies ect to try and figure out what was going on and i believe i have a slight issue with my trim die I screwed the trim die all the way down to the shell plate and it STILL isn't sizing my brass down far enough. It seems like the bottom of the trim die needs .010-.020 or more ground off the end so i have more adjustment to get my brass to fit the gage the way i want............ IS THIS NORMAL Or should i adjust the size/deprime die in station one and let the RT1200 trim the case with little support Or call dillon for a replacement Please let me know what you think i should do........

Thanks,

GSPBirdDog

NOTE: I pulled the below down from the dillon tech page and don't fully understand what "B" means........

––––Cases are not properly sized––––

A. Not pulling the operating handle down all of the way

(pull the handle down all of the way and then push it up all of the way )

B. Case may be oversized from firing in a gun with an oversized chamber

the case may have outlived its useful life

(start with new cases and fire only in a known chamber) (it could have also been too hot of a load or an over-pressured load )

C. Sizing die is not adjusted properly

pull the operating handle down all of the way and screw the sizing die down all of the way to the shellplate. Raise the handle and insert an unsized case into the shellplate. Pull the handle down all of the way and tighten the die lock nut

If what they are saying is correct, then why won't the sizing die form the brass back to the right spec and fit the gage? Is it from the distance of the head of the brass to the first contact point of the chamber stretching to where the die can't size

UPDATE 1/15/2010––––––- I just got off the phone with dillon and told them the problem.They said it must be in the die's and to send them back or since i have acess to machines, to grind .010 or so off the bottom of both dies He told me if that didn't work, to send them back and they would get me new ones out in the mail asap! I also told him i used the same brass and sized it in my RCBS rock chucker with an RCBS die and it gaged "PERFECT".... He suggested that i use the rcbs....but i am not spending $100 in dies to let them lay on the bench, so i am going to try and fix the problem either way I am having a hard time believing that BOTH dies are out of spec and sugested to dillon to send the shellplate back as well so it could be checked... He didn't seem to be thrilled of that idea but said it wouldn't be a problem at all.................

Let me add that dillon precision still has awesome customer service and i will buy any of their products...anyday

[Taildraggerdave]

Turn the size die down a bit further and try again. I followed Dillons instructions for setting the size die and found that to size the once fired cases to fit in my Dillon case gauge, I had to turn the sizing die down until it touched the shell plate. Lubed some cases, ran them through, and they fell into the case gauge perfectly. After I had fired the brass in my chamber, they needed next to nothing to size them back.

Try that first, then add the trimmer later...

Take care,

Dave

[GSPBirdDog]

Turn the size die down a bit further and try again. I followed Dillons instructions for setting the size die and found that to size the once fired cases to fit in my Dillon case gauge, I had to turn the sizing die down until it touched the shell plate. Lubed some cases, ran them through, and they fell into the case gauge perfectly. After I had fired the brass in my chamber, they needed next to nothing to size them back.

Try that first, then add the trimmer later...

Take care,

Dave

I already tried that as well and have both dies touching the shellplate until the press cams over......Still not working

[jaredr]

for what it's worth, i had a similar problem and actually took a few thousands off the bottom of the die with a belt sander. that fixed the problem, not sure if my dies were oversized or the ar i had at the time had an oversize chamber...

-jared

[anm2_man]

Just a couple of questions, since I just finished sizing/decaping/trimming about 1000 pieces of .223 and I'm set up the same way you are. First question "Are u using a carbide die ?" - if not and I don't know how many rounds you have reloaded, but the Steel dies will wear after a while. Carbide lasts forever. Next question, what Kind of weapon was the used to shoot the brass your sizing ?. Last question is "If the brass was shot out of a SAW are some other FA weapon, check the rim of the brass for nicks. A FA weapon extractor sometimes will nick the case rim, and that will inhibit the case going into the case gage. What I do, is reverse the cartridge and try to insert it backwards. If it won't go in the gage, inspect the rim for nicks. Clean up the rim and you should be good to go. I use a 3M deburring wheel on my grinder to take care of this problem. Lastly, if none of the above works, You can always look at a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It does a final re-size (while its crimping) all the way down the case. Now I've never used one of these for .223, but have used it to fix the GLOCK BULGE on both 9mm and .40 S&W. I know they (Lee) make one for .223, but you shouldn't need it unless the brass is so deformed near the rim that the Dillon dies won't correct it.

I had a post below asking what method you guys use to size while using a case gage...... I am using a seperate dillon toolhead to size and trim my 223 brass and have been having problems with the brass fitting the way i want in the dillon case gage I am running a dillon size /deprime die in station one and have it set a c**t hair high so my dillon trim die can do the final sizing as well as have the case supported well while being trimmed. The problem is ......I took everything apart to clean the dies ect to try and figure out what was going on and i believe i have a slight issue with my trim die I screwed the trim die all the way down to the shell plate and it STILL isn't sizing my brass down far enough. It seems like the bottom of the trim die needs .010-.020 or more ground off the end so i have more adjustment to get my brass to fit the gage the way i want............ IS THIS NORMAL Or should i adjust the size/deprime die in station one and let the RT1200 trim the case with little support Or call dillon for a replacement Please let me know what you think i should do........

Thanks,

GSPBirdDog

NOTE: I pulled the below down from the dillon tech page and don't fully understand what "B" means........

––––Cases are not properly sized––––

A. Not pulling the operating handle down all of the way

(pull the handle down all of the way and then push it up all of the way )

B. Case may be oversized from firing in a gun with an oversized chamber

the case may have outlived its useful life

(start with new cases and fire only in a known chamber) (it could have also been too hot of a load or an over-pressured load )

C. Sizing die is not adjusted properly

pull the operating handle down all of the way and screw the sizing die down all of the way to the shellplate. Raise the handle and insert an unsized case into the shellplate. Pull the handle down all of the way and tighten the die lock nut

If what they are saying is correct, then why won't the sizing die form the brass back to the right spec and fit the gage? Is it from the distance of the head of the brass to the first contact point of the chamber stretching to where the die can't size

UPDATE 1/15/2010––––––- I just got off the phone with dillon and told them the problem.They said it must be in the die's and to send them back or since i have acess to machines, to grind .010 or so off the bottom of both dies He told me if that didn't work, to send them back and they would get me new ones out in the mail asap! I also told him i used the same brass and sized it in my RCBS rock chucker with an RCBS die and it gaged "PERFECT".... He suggested that i use the rcbs....but i am not spending $100 in dies to let them lay on the bench, so i am going to try and fix the problem either way I am having a hard time believing that BOTH dies are out of spec and sugested to dillon to send the shellplate back as well so it could be checked... He didn't seem to be thrilled of that idea but said it wouldn't be a problem at all.................

Let me add that dillon precision still has awesome customer service and i will buy any of their products...anyday

[GSPBirdDog]

Thanks for the reply as it touched on things that no one else has........ I am NOT using carbide dies and they are brand new.....and i don't know what the brass was fired out of as i bought it on AR15.com..but i will check the rim of the cases!

NOTE: I put my RCBS FL size die in my toolhead...before the trimmer and i am getting the brass to size where i need it Sounds like it may be the dillon dies but i honestly think that the undercut on top of the shellplate, where the dies touch, is over tolerance causing the dies to not be able to adjust down. Dillon told me to grind/turn in lathe the bottom of the dies .010-.020 (both trim die & size die)...but i would rather take a 3/4" end mill and cut .010-.020 of the top of the shellholder where the dies touch

Just a couple of questions, since I just finished sizing/decaping/trimming about 1000 pieces of .223 and I'm set up the same way you are. First question "Are u using a carbide die ?" - if not and I don't know how many rounds you have reloaded, but the Steel dies will wear after a while. Carbide lasts forever. Next question, what Kind of weapon was the used to shoot the brass your sizing ?. Last question is "If the brass was shot out of a SAW are some other FA weapon, check the rim of the brass for nicks. A FA weapon extractor sometimes will nick the case rim, and that will inhibit the case going into the case gage. What I do, is reverse the cartridge and try to insert it backwards. If it won't go in the gage, inspect the rim for nicks. Clean up the rim and you should be good to go. I use a 3M deburring wheel on my grinder to take care of this problem. Lastly, if none of the above works, You can always look at a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It does a final re-size (while its crimping) all the way down the case. Now I've never used one of these for .223, but have used it to fix the GLOCK BULGE on both 9mm and .40 S&W. I know they (Lee) make one for .223, but you shouldn't need it unless the brass is so deformed near the rim that the Dillon dies won't correct it.

I had a post below asking what method you guys use to size while using a case gage...... I am using a seperate dillon toolhead to size and trim my 223 brass and have been having problems with the brass fitting the way i want in the dillon case gage I am running a dillon size /deprime die in station one and have it set a c**t hair high so my dillon trim die can do the final sizing as well as have the case supported well while being trimmed. The problem is ......I took everything apart to clean the dies ect to try and figure out what was going on and i believe i have a slight issue with my trim die I screwed the trim die all the way down to the shell plate and it STILL isn't sizing my brass down far enough. It seems like the bottom of the trim die needs .010-.020 or more ground off the end so i have more adjustment to get my brass to fit the gage the way i want............ IS THIS NORMAL Or should i adjust the size/deprime die in station one and let the RT1200 trim the case with little support Or call dillon for a replacement Please let me know what you think i should do........

Thanks,

GSPBirdDog

NOTE: I pulled the below down from the dillon tech page and don't fully understand what "B" means........

––––Cases are not properly sized––––

A. Not pulling the operating handle down all of the way

(pull the handle down all of the way and then push it up all of the way )

B. Case may be oversized from firing in a gun with an oversized chamber

the case may have outlived its useful life

(start with new cases and fire only in a known chamber) (it could have also been too hot of a load or an over-pressured load )

C. Sizing die is not adjusted properly

pull the operating handle down all of the way and screw the sizing die down all of the way to the shellplate. Raise the handle and insert an unsized case into the shellplate. Pull the handle down all of the way and tighten the die lock nut

If what they are saying is correct, then why won't the sizing die form the brass back to the right spec and fit the gage? Is it from the distance of the head of the brass to the first contact point of the chamber stretching to where the die can't size

UPDATE 1/15/2010––––––- I just got off the phone with dillon and told them the problem.They said it must be in the die's and to send them back or since i have acess to machines, to grind .010 or so off the bottom of both dies He told me if that didn't work, to send them back and they would get me new ones out in the mail asap! I also told him i used the same brass and sized it in my RCBS rock chucker with an RCBS die and it gaged "PERFECT".... He suggested that i use the rcbs....but i am not spending $100 in dies to let them lay on the bench, so i am going to try and fix the problem either way I am having a hard time believing that BOTH dies are out of spec and sugested to dillon to send the shellplate back as well so it could be checked... He didn't seem to be thrilled of that idea but said it wouldn't be a problem at all.................

Let me add that dillon precision still has awesome customer service and i will buy any of their products...anyday

[anm2_man]

Wow - So Dillon said to turn/grind the bottom of the die. If I was you, I would ask for a refund on a brand new die that doesn't size brass properly. JMHO.

[benos]

Normally, to get Dillon's 223 Die properly adjusted (so a re-sized case will drop all the way into the Case Gage) - run the handle all the way down, and screw the die in with your fingers until you can't screw it in any farther (bottomed out the Shellplate). Then pull the handle and screw the die in 1/8 - 1/4 turn. Now when your run the case up in the die, it will feel like the handle "cams over" at the bottom, which is how it should feel.

be