.223 load with clays or titegroup

[mattbeck]

I was going to post this anyway and happened to notice a reference in another post about Hogdgon listing a 55 grain .223 rifle load in both Clays and Titegroup. Velocity is around 1050. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and whether it would function and be safe in an AR. The reason I would like to try it is because this would be close to subsonic, and might be more effective with my suppressor.

[jmorris]

Try silencertalk.com go to the forums then down to "handloading". Trail boss seems to be popular. I don’t know of any subsonic load that will cycle a .223 AR. The key with subsonic .223 (and other rifle rounds) is to start high and work your load down. Also, make dam sure every bullet exits the barrel before the next shot.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm also has some info and links.

Just slightly less energy than a 55 grain subsonic .223 would be a subsonic 40 grain 22lr they would also function with the conversion and cost less to shoot. 22lr would also probably be about as effective as no .223 projectile is designed to expand at such low velocities.

[gm iprod]

I have found that there is no usful load data for subsonmic 223 that will cycle an unmodified AR15, or Mini14 for that matter.

If you can get an old Hodgdon Manual (before the ring binder) it has lead bullett data for all sorts of velocity. Lyman has light loads with lead projectiles as well. Look around. I would guess that Clays and Titegroup would be a little agressive and fast. I think Jmorris is on track with Trail Boss.

BUT Sierra Blitz and Balistic Tip and V-Max bullets do expand at about 1200fps. Not subsonic I know but there is hope.

I also suggest getting a conversion kit. This will work better than light loaded loaded 223 rounds. The ammo is designed to work. I have both a insertable conversion kit and a complete 22lr specific top end. The 22lr specific top end is more reliable and accurate, plus the scope is permanently mounted and just saves time resighting.

[jaredr]

CMMG has just released a ciener-type AR .22 conversion. brownells is stocking it along with very nice .22 lr magazines made by black dog machine. conversion works just like a ciener, except that they're in stock and available through brownells so none of the customer service nightmares everyone else who's apparently done business with jonathan arthur ciener has posted about. installation is just opening up the rear pin, pulling out the bolt carrier, and swapping in the .22 lr conversion. magazine's work the same, no adaptor reqd. i've seen reports of so-so accuracy but I can get about .5" or so when I take my time from the bench at 50 yards (with a 10x scope for testing purposes). that's way more then I could ever do offhand, so think the gun is more then accurate enough for plinking. my two cents.

Edited to add: I do most of my AR plinking with an eotech or irons at 25-50 yards. at that distance, the .22lr conversion hits <very> close to pointof impact with winchester white box 55gr FMJ .223, so I don't bother to re-sight in when swapping. my .22lr hits about .5" - 1" left at 50 yds vs. 223 rifle ammo, but then again that's shooting unmagnified at a 50 yard target, so my results are pretty inconsistent to begin with...

-Jared

Edited January 19, 2009 by jaredr

[AZ-Ranger]

I had a Ciener conversion that I installed in an old Colt M16 upper with a 20" 1/12 twist barrel. I originally purchased the conversion for my son as he still finds the .223 a little intimidating. To say I was disappointed would be to put it lightly. Accuracy was pathetic with anything other than Aguila 60gr sniper subsonic (accuracy was mediocre). To top it off, the Ciener conversion got dirty very quickly and couldn't more than a couple of mags before it was caked in soot. I even polished the rails with the hope of increasing reliability, but alas no dice.

I sold the conversion and the upper and purchased a Ruger 10/22.

Needless to say, I haven't looked back. The Ruger was cheaper (I bought the entire 10/22 for just about the cost of the Ciener conversion), and my son can run mag after mag before it cakes up and won't function. I use Steel Lips mags and function is 100%. I can throw either my Tac-16 or Tac-65 on the gun and it sounds like a pellet gun with either 22 CB long, Remington subsonics (quite a few duds), Aguila Colibri (won't cycle), Super Colibri (won't cycle) and Aguila SSS.

To top it off, I had enough money left over to buy a Ruger Mk2 w/threaded barrel.