newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Like Dave I have always had an accumulation of crud on the bottom of the scope in a well built normally functioning gun. +1 That shoudn't push your scope off. Even on a short modified gun with hybrid holes right below the scope, I've not seen it change the zero. I'd say there is another problem causing your zero issues. Ok. What do you think it would be? Cracked scope, loose lens, loose diode, scope shifting on mount... lots of possibilities. Ok. Thanks for the help. I'll check all of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I am not sure it is coming from that hole but it was pretty centralized over the spot where the hole would be pointing when the slide came back. I forgot to mention the fact that it is a 4.25 inch gun as well. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I just figured it might.I have tried to shoot it with this problem but major loads usually throw it off in 30 rounds or so and minor loads seem to knock it off right in the middle of a Steel Challenge stage every time. This might even be a mount problem but it is a very big coincidence that there is a hole there. How are getting the C-more back to zero after the problem? Have you ckd the mount and the screws? have you ckd the screws holding the C-more to the mount? I am just simply readjusting the sight in screws on the c-more. We have checked the mount and the c-more and there seems to be no looseness. Could be a bad C-more. You could borrow one to test that theory. I am with the other guys---it seems you going to need a new slide. I would send the slide to another smith--get a written estimate of damages and lay it on the one who did the damage and request he pony up the damages. If he offers to "make it good", then give him a chance. Accidents happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Ok. I think we are just gonna get the slide replaced and cut our losses. If I end up with a reliable 9mm Major open gun then I got what I was after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'd like to actually see a picture before saying the slide is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 +1 to the picture - just to be sure FWIW, it sounds like the crud is accumulating on your gun right where I'd expect it on mine. If you look on the gun - that's right about the same spot where the barrel hood stops moving backward, and is the first point where there's separation between the barrel and slide - that's when any gasses and junk that exit from the chamber end start moving upward out of the gun Sounds like normal accumulation, and nothing to be concerned about, in that regard. As far as the scope - C-Mores are the best overall option we have right now, but they can be finicky. And, if they're broken somehow, they're downright frustrating. There's a lot of info on the forum about troubleshooting loose screws and such - you could have that going on. You could also have a loose lens (which may not feel loose to the fingers), or something else similar. If you can borrow a scope to double check, that would be good. If not, you could try sending it back to C-More or something like that. A scope noticeably losing adjustment in that kind of timeframe has a problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I realize that losing zero is a common problem on c-mores but mine lost zero by about 2 feet. That's a little much I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) I'd like to actually see a picture before saying the slide is toast. I'll see if my dad will let me post a picture of it. The last thing we want to do is show the name of the company that built it and give them a reason to not like us. I'll see what I can do. Edited January 14, 2009 by newopen GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I realize that losing zero is a common problem on c-mores but mine lost zero by about 2 feet. That's a little much I think. Totally agree As long as the gun hasn't been banged around, it shouldn't lose zero. I've had it shift a little bit in air travel, but only by a few inches at 35 yards (which is why I always double check my zero after travel). 2 feet in the span of a few rounds is a broken scope or mount (broken in some way -which could just be loose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The last thing we want to do is show the name of the company that built it and give them a reason to not like us. You could always shoot the pic such that their name isn't visible - or use Photoshop or something to block the name out... FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I realize that losing zero is a common problem on c-mores but mine lost zero by about 2 feet. That's a little much I think. Totally agree As long as the gun hasn't been banged around, it shouldn't lose zero. I've had it shift a little bit in air travel, but only by a few inches at 35 yards (which is why I always double check my zero after travel). 2 feet in the span of a few rounds is a broken scope or mount (broken in some way -which could just be loose). But I can't figure out how because the screws have red loctite running out of them and the c-more shows no signs of cracking whatsoever. I will take the c-more off and check underneath it to make sure but it's very confusing. At one time it was thought that I needed to ream the comp and that would fix it but that was disproved by the fact that I adjusted the c-more back and it eventually lost zero again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 The last thing we want to do is show the name of the company that built it and give them a reason to not like us. You could always shoot the pic such that their name isn't visible - or use Photoshop or something to block the name out... FWIW... I will try. The man who made the gun will still recognize it if he sees it though. I doubt dad will let me post the pic. I'll see if there is some other way I can show you whats going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 But I can't figure out how because the screws have red loctite running out of them and the c-more shows no signs of cracking whatsoever. I will take the c-more off and check underneath it to make sure but it's very confusing. Sometimes its hard to spot a crack, unfortunately. It might be a good time to get C-More to look at the scope, honestly... If you can afford it, buying a backup (or new primary) scope might be another option, and then send the current scope off for repair. But - check the mount over carefully while you have the scope off, too, before getting into a new scope - make sure everything is solid there... At one time it was thought that I needed to ream the comp and that would fix it but that was disproved by the fact that I adjusted the c-more back and it eventually lost zero again. Can the gun shoot a group? The guns I've seen where bullets were rubbing the baffles in the comp generally cannot group to save their lives - like, sometimes as bad as 12"+ groups at 10 yards. If the gun can group, but just loses zero, then your comp is probably fine, and the scope and mount are usually going to be the right place to start looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newopen GM Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 But I can't figure out how because the screws have red loctite running out of them and the c-more shows no signs of cracking whatsoever. I will take the c-more off and check underneath it to make sure but it's very confusing. Sometimes its hard to spot a crack, unfortunately. It might be a good time to get C-More to look at the scope, honestly... If you can afford it, buying a backup (or new primary) scope might be another option, and then send the current scope off for repair. But - check the mount over carefully while you have the scope off, too, before getting into a new scope - make sure everything is solid there... At one time it was thought that I needed to ream the comp and that would fix it but that was disproved by the fact that I adjusted the c-more back and it eventually lost zero again. Can the gun shoot a group? The guns I've seen where bullets were rubbing the baffles in the comp generally cannot group to save their lives - like, sometimes as bad as 12"+ groups at 10 yards. If the gun can group, but just loses zero, then your comp is probably fine, and the scope and mount are usually going to be the right place to start looking... Actually I did notice that I could not shoot a group with it at all. I figured it was just me trigger slapping even though I usually shoot good groups like that. How do you think I should handle this? Should I check the c-more or ream the comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Actually I did notice that I could not shoot a group with it at all. I figured it was just me trigger slapping even though I usually shoot good groups like that. How do you think I should handle this? Should I check the c-more or ream the comp? Inspect the comp very carefully under bright light - look at the holes through the baffles for signs of a bullet touching or striking them. This could happen at any of the baffles, and could be as subtle as a small bright spot on one inside side of the hole, to a streak of copper that's been rubbed off the bullet jackets, to less subtle, like a crack in the comp or baffle, or really obvious wear on one part of a hole. Normally, the holes will be fairly uniform all the way around, usually with some carbon fouling evenly distributed (unless you've cleaned it off really well recently). If anything jumps out at you, it could be an indication that bullets are striking somewhere they shouldn't be. You might also measure the front hole in the comp and see what diameter its at - a properly installed comp that hasn't been reamed can still show issues like that... If you can't see anything there, its back to trying to narrow it down - and I'd still suggest seeing if you can borrow a scope or something. Also, have someone else try to group the gun, too (hopefully, someone good at shooting a group) - and be sure that you're grouping it from a solid rest. If the gun can't group with another scope on it (hopefully one that's known to be good), shot by yourself and another shooter, then you've most likely got some other problem. Reaming the comp might be an answer at that point - given the other potential issue that you've got, though, I'd honestly consider that its time to have a sit down with that smith and get all your concerns worked out on the gun... Its just a matter of logically tearing the problem apart and arriving at the answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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