Fully locked support wrist

[ER_STL]

So here's my next grip question. I've been playing around with the suggested "pinch and roll" from Matt Burkett (as I understand it to be) and I've found that I really prefer this method to index my grip. I'm much more consistent with my grip when I start by lining up my support hand under the guard in the chop. When I roll my grip up onto the gun though, I rarely end up with a fully locked wrist. In order to fully lock it out, I end up losing a significant amount of pinch strength with my support hand and I almost need a slight push-pull to keep it in place. If I don't worry about how extended the wrist is but rather focus on total grip contact, the grip falls naturally in place.

My question now is, how important is a totally locked support wrist? I see some people saying that it is a must while others maintain that total grip contact is more important than a locked wrist. Which is it?

[Jake Di Vita]

I think most of the responses will be different than mine, but I'm going to go on record saying a fully locked support wrist and having the support elbow rolled upwards into the proper position is very important.

[Duane Thomas]

What is the advantage of the rolled-up support arm elbow? Sorry if you've already answered that elsewhere, I missed it but I'm very curious. I'm actually considering doing an article on arm position, a companion piece to the "Combat Grip" article I did awhile back so I'm currently harvesting input.

[ER_STL]

I think most of the responses will be different than mine, but I'm going to go on record saying a fully locked support wrist and having the support elbow rolled upwards into the proper position is very important.

What is the advantage of the rolled-up support arm elbow? Sorry if you've already answered that elsewhere, I missed it but I'm very curious. I'm actually considering doing an article on arm position, a companion piece to the "Combat Grip" article I did awhile back so I'm currently harvesting input.

Jake - are you drawing from DR Middlebrooks' Fist Fire? I've heard people who have trained under him offer this advice. If so, I believe the way he applies his locked support wrist is different from the standard ISO grip, right?

As I've understood it, rolling the support elbow up (and out) forces the support hand back onto the gun, reducing the amount of grip pressure needed to hang onto the gun.

[RobMoore]

I would think all these factors depend on the shooter and their abilities. I get a good amount of shooters who are taught previously to lock their arms out (at a place that only shoots 9mm, and doesn't require more than modest accuracy at "combat distances"), and when they come to us and shoot .357SIG, they can't keep their grip together because their left hand wants to stay in place while their right hand recoils with the gun.

I was taught to roll the support elbow down some to help "clam" the left hand into the right one, keeping the meaty parts in the back pushed together. Both wrists should be tensed to resist muzzle flip, same goes for the elbows which are slightly bent.

[FranDoc]

I'm interested to see what people say on this one.

I've found that when the left/support wrist is cammed hard forward and locked in that position, the hand flies off the gun in recoil because my hand is 'stuck' in that position and can't 'ride' with the gun as it moves. I've worked with this a lot (small hands, chubby Production guns, nothing has a really good fit and I've tried most).

My solution was to back off on the hard 'cam' (ulnar deviation, for the other medical types). Keeps my hand in contact with the gun better, less readjustment after each shot.

Everybody's hand-to-gun fit is different. YMMV. If you've got a suggestion that might work, I'm interested to hear it.

[Jay870]

I may have crazy flexible wrists but if I can't my support hand wrist forward to "lock out" my fingers and the heel of my hand are in no position to get an effective grip on the gun.

I do employ the elbow twist recommendation of JD though... seems to provide more pressure high on the grip of the gun, withough a huge increase in overall grip tension.