Confused on proper training with laser grip?

[Mark21]

I have a Glock 17 with regular iron night sights that I am proficient with (though I spend 90% of my time training with my carbine, so my pistol skills suffer)... Anyway, I have recently added a Crimson Laser Grip after seeing how useful a laser can be during a tactical training course. Now I have a real issue when I go to the range: do I practice with my sights only and just ignore the laser (it lines up with my sights at 7 yards)? Do I ignore sights and use laser only (which feels extremely awkward, if only because I am trained to bring the gun up to proper sighting each and every time...)?

Is there any accepted standard for training with a laser-equipped pistol? Thank you in advance for any thoughts on this issue.

[mdstihl]

Mark, I don't know because I'd like to ask you how you like the CT grip on the Glock? Mine's a G19 and I've been considering laser sights for a while, but some guys don't like the CT grips on them, but I'm not sure I want the Lasermax that replaces the guide rod since I'd have to remember to turn it on (and off). Anyway, have you shot both styles, and which do you like the best? Thanks!

[Viggen]

Mark, welcome to BE. It's a fine place to learn a lot about the shooting games. It is not "tactical" in it's orientation. That would be someplace else.

For shooting accurately and fast the laser is a distraction. During daylight the laser washes out and if shooting under the lights, if the laser can be seen, it serves as a distraction and the performance difference between a Master using good sights and the same Master running a laser is huge. The suggestion would be to either turn it off and/or get rid of it. It's not going to help your shooting. Gadgets do not improve performance.

What sort of matches do you shoot locally? If you do not, you really have no way to gauge where you are as to shooting ability, regardless of courses taken, and you are missing out on a lot of fun.

Once again, welcome to BE world.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Viggen

[Allgoodhits]

I have a Glock 17 with regular iron night sights that I am proficient with (though I spend 90% of my time training with my carbine, so my pistol skills suffer)... Anyway, I have recently added a Crimson Laser Grip after seeing how useful a laser can be during a tactical training course. Now I have a real issue when I go to the range: do I practice with my sights only and just ignore the laser (it lines up with my sights at 7 yards)? Do I ignore sights and use laser only (which feels extremely awkward, if only because I am trained to bring the gun up to proper sighting each and every time...)?

Is there any accepted standard for training with a laser-equipped pistol? Thank you in advance for any thoughts on this issue.

Mark21,

I have several CTC grips on differing handguns. First they are excellent training aids, and as a defensive "tool" you can do things with them that you can not do without them. The short answer is, I don't use them together. The longer answer is....

Trying to use sights and trying to use the laser concurrently are in most cases counterproductive, except when sighting at the distance you want. For me, I sight them in at the longest range that I am "likely" going to be using them and that is about 25 yards. Sighted at this distance they will NOT be dead on at 5, 7, 10, 15 yds or at 50 yds, but they will be close enough, and they are not for competition target shooting anyway.

BTW, I like them best as a dry fire training aid when used on double action firearms, as you get feedback as to what is happening (visual) when the hammer falls. This visual feedback should replicate what direction the bullet had a tendency to go when it left the muzzle. It doesn't matter if the gun is exactly zeroed with the CTCs for this purpose. When live firing with CTCs I look at the laser not the sights. I may see the sights, but I am not looking at them. With the CTC laser grips, you can help diagnose poor grip, and or poor trigger control. You can make adjustments with your hand or trigger finger placement, until such time that you have figured the grip which works for you, thus permitting the hammer to fall without causing your normal wobble to enlarge, or change shape. BTW, that is trigger control. To apply pressure to the trigger until the gun fires and "your" normal wobble size is neither enlarged or shape changed. In other words the trigger manipulation has had no effect on hold.

After you have figured out the ideal grip, trigger finger placement with the laser, then you can go to your open sights, and your shooting should be improved, because the hardest part of shooting a handgun well is understanding and mastering the trigger control. The laser grips will aid you in achieving this. They are awesome at others things to.

Enjoy them and use them, when it is appropriate and productive to do so, and used open sights when it is appropriate and productive to do so. You have to figure out the "when".

Martin

[Mark21]

Mdstihl -- I really like the feel of them in my hand, though I am 6' and have decent sized hands. You can also use your right index finger to block the laser temporarily by raising your finger just a tad over (still in almost perfect shooting position) the laser. This way you will not give away your location by an laser tracking the floor or a far wall if you do not want someone to know you are coming. Lastly, I had the whole Glock grip stipled, including my CT, and it looks and feels great. Try to find someone that has one installed and see how you like it. At the time I bought them, Sky Optics on the web had the best price delivered, but that may no longer be the case.

Viggen -- while I do train tactically most of the time, I am a believer that I can learn an enormous amount from all different kinds of disciplines, and the one thing that appeals to me about competitive shooting is the actual competitive aspect! Because truth be told, unless I am active military or under contract to a private agency, the goal is to AVOID tactical confrontation if possible, so it is hard to really gauge how good you are. I plan on learning a lot here at BE

Allgoodhits -- Thank you for taking the time for your in-depth post. It was insightful and extremely helpful, and I will be particularly attendant to my trigger control as I train going forward. I appreciate all the advice, as I was truly lost in the correct way to use the laser for my needs. I do plan on becoming the best shooter I can with my irons, but as you stated, there are just some things you can do with a laser that cannot be done with irons, and I would like to become proficient in both.

Thanks to all,

Mark

Edited February 17, 2008 by Mark21

[Viggen]

Viggen -- while I do train tactically most of the time, I am a believer that I can learn an enormous amount from all different kinds of disciplines, and the one thing that appeals to me about competitive shooting is the actual competitive aspect! Because truth be told, unless I am active military or under contract to a private agency, the goal is to AVOID tactical confrontation if possible, so it is hard to really gauge how good you are. I plan on learning a lot here at BE

The forum has a lot to offer. Take what works for you and discard the rest.

Whatever you choose to use, test it. See what works for you. Competition puts your skills on display so that you can accurately gauge them against others.