Buying a Gun in America

[TMFAKBFS]

Hi All,

I really didn't know where this question could go, so i posted it here.

Every day i read this forum and found a lot of answers to questions i had. But not for this one.

Often I see nice second hand Open guns in the Classified topics, for very nice prices. I live in The Netherlands Europe and when you go to a gunsmith to let him built an Open gun, you easily pay up to 4400 Dollars for it. That's with only one mag included. For that same money i could almost buy a very nice and brand new Brazos Custom And if i see that some Open guns are offered for around 2500 Dollars, it's a good deal if you live over here.

Can anybody tell me if you guy's need some permits or export documents to send a gun to Europe. Or does this involve a firearms dealer ??? The question is not if you guy's would do it, more if it's hard or a lot of trouble doing it. Cause it will also involve a lot of trust from both sides. From my side if i will get the gun once i've paid And from your side if you would get the money. But like i said, that is not the question.

Thanks for your answers.

Edited November 7, 2007 by TMFAKBFS

[Catfish]

A good starting place would probably be the website of the ATF. (Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms). There is a place on their website where all of the rules that govern gun purchases are found. Now, clearly understanding those rules is another matter, but it'd probably be a good place to start.

[racerba]

I don't know and it's only speculation on my part but:

Not only do you have to go through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tabacco, Firearms, and Explosives here in the US, you probably have to go through what ever governmental department that handles the importing of firearms in The Netherlands. I'm sure it won't be cheap.

ATF

Edited November 7, 2007 by racerba

[TMFAKBFS]

Ok will do Maybe someone on this huge forum has experience with selling a gun to Europe ?

[TMFAKBFS]

The part that i will have to arrange here in The Netherlands isn't that hard. Just ask for an Import document at customs, and a document to buy a gun. The only thing is that I will have to know all the information about the gun in advance. Like serial number, brand, caliber etc.

[chuckbradley]

It would require an export permit issued by the secretary of states office here. It is based on an import permit from your country. Your import permit has to be done before an export permit can be applied for. This process with fees and shipping(the hard part is trying to find a carrier) can run 400-500.00. Its something that is becoming harder and harder to do according to my conversations with exporters. With the fees here and possible duties when it arrives the 4400.00 you pay may not be that bad of a deal.

[TMFAKBFS]

Thanks for your answer Chuck. So if i understand you correctly, the shipping, export, carrier and processing fees will be that expensive. Than your probably right that for "almost" the same money i could let a local gunsmith build me a nice new Open gun.

[Carlos]

Some of the Irish IPSC shooters mentioned a German importer who worked with one of the US-based custom gunsmiths (possibly Dawson?) - I read this over on global village. I think that German importer (whoever they are) might be the best conduit to legally export a competition handgun from the US and legally import it into the EU. Will try to find the post.

Seems like international small arms controls are getting tighter all the time.

[Jeff686]

Well, could you work out a swap?

Buy a bare frame in the Netherlands (just bare, no parts or anything).

Find a gun in the USA that you like. Buy it, and get the seller to send you all the parts. Let him keep the bare frame.

Pay your gun smith to assemble and adjust your new open gun.

No frame with serial number? Not really a gun, just parts. No import/export issues.

Better yet, if you travel to the USA, bring your frame to compete in a match. I think this is pretty easy with the correct ATF forms. While here, get a trigger job and buy a used 'top end' for it.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Jeff686

[lowlands]

The importation into Europe (at least in the case of The Netherlands) is pretty easy, get it registered on your firearms permit and apply for the import permit, cost is just the stamp you need to send out the application.

Getting the export permit in the US is the biggest hurdle, but it certainly is doable. Don't forget to add the costs for all the paperwork, the actual shipment of the gun and all the taxes you have to pay when it finally arrives (both the import tax and VAT locally).

Working with a bare frame probably makes things a lot more complex as you'd have to register that on your permit also as it contains the serial number. If you want to go this route, just buy the entire gun and export that, lot easier.

It's worth it if you want a specific custom gun, if you want anything you can buy at a gunstore in Europe it probably is not worth the hassle nor will it be economical to import it yourself imho.

[TMFAKBFS]

Like Lowlands says, probably it's not worth it. Here in the Netherlands we also have great gunsmiths that can build a nice Custom. The question I asked was specificly pointed to buying a second hand gun from a private owner in the US. But because the same amount of fees, taxes and permits apply it isn't worth it. The costs will go up to the same amount that i will have to pay for a local gunsmith, but then he will build me a brand new one

Offcourse thanks for all the reactions.