alellis Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Guys Believe me I did search and read through 8 pages of posts and couldn't find an answer. So here goes. Yesterday I was ROing a stage. Start position seated at a table, gun on the table empty, all mags on the belt. No stipulation as to exact hand position. So when I give the standby the shooter puts his hand close to the gun and puts his weak hand on the magazine in the pouch. I am thinking you are not supposed to do that but off goes the beep and he shoots the stage does ok so we do the clear gun and holster routine. I know him well so I say about it and he reckons its ok. I read through the rule book but can't find anything which says not to do it. The rule book does say that a stage should not require anyone to start touching the gun or loading devices. What say you guys. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I am not an RO but I have had some misunderstandings like this. I am a new shooter and I am constantly asking questions. One was very similar to this one. I had a stage where I had to sit in a chair, gun unloaded on the table, and mags on the table. I made the point to ask where my hands were suposed to be. The RO said it didn't matter as long as I was not touching my gun or mags. I started very similar to your shooter and my finger tips were around the gun not touching. RO said that is not right but everyone else says it is OK because the stage design was not specific on hand placement. I made it a point to clarify the point of hand placement and the RO made a change to say hands on your thighs. Since I was the first shooter it was OK. The other shooters were a little upset but I didn't care, it was an issue that needed to be clarified. Just make sure you clarify the stage and if there is something you as the RO are unsure of then make the neccassary changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyAU Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 (edited) Al, check your rulebook: 8.2.3. A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal" (except for unavoidable touching with the lower arms). Regards, Kirby. Edited October 15, 2006 by KirbyAU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alellis Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Al,check your rulebook: 8.2.3. A course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the "Standby" command and before the "Start Signal" (except for unavoidable touching with the lower arms). Regards, Kirby. Thamks KirkbyAU Funny how I read that and didn't see the allow portion. Its past and gone now and not to be worried about but would it be a procedural. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 You got the right rule. Just an incomplete course description is all. Not a big deal. At a Level "X" match, your RM should have picked this up, but it's good as a stage RO to read through for discrepencies. As a competitor, I'd have done the same thing, if not clarified, but as I've got older, I would have said something to the MD and had the description edited. The toils of old(er) age. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 The hand close the the gun with the stage discription as written is OK. Hand touching magazine is verbotenn as Kirby pointed out by rule 8.2.3. Now if the weak hand was just close to, but not touching the mag, he would be just fine. Poorly written procedure, but sometimes it is intentional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Thamks KirkbyAUFunny how I read that and didn't see the allow portion. Its past and gone now and not to be worried about but would it be a procedural. al No procedural 8.3.1 ...The competitor must then assume the required start position. At this point the Range Officer will proceed. If the competitor does not assume the start position, the RO can not give the start signal. It would be wrong to give the competitor a penalty for the RO's mistake. A reshoot would be appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 No procedural8.3.1 ...The competitor must then assume the required start position. At this point the Range Officer will proceed. If the competitor does not assume the start position, the RO can not give the start signal. It would be wrong to give the competitor a penalty for the RO's mistake. A reshoot would be appropriate. Depends on when. If after the "Standby" Command then a "Creeping" Procedure is warrented. If after "Are You Ready", but before "Standby" then you should withhold the Standby until the proper start is obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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