Long Range Rifle

[jbullgpd]

So, in preparation for Raton ( since I hear there are going to be some way out there targets) how do you all go about when is enough misses. Shooting irons recently at those little buggers out at 400 and such, and even those little plates at like 200 or so, I sometimes just have one of those targets that sticks its tounge out and laughs at ya. You all know the one. I know I'm not the only guy who's see him. Anyways at what point is it just better to take the Miss penalty and move on. Local match it was +10 per miss, I heard at Raton +25 per miss. I welcome your ideas, and yeah yeah practice practice practice, know your zero etc. No issues prone its that four point kneel through the ports and what not where that front sight is doing a little dance. I welcome any ideas for stable shooting platform as well. IE... do you set it on the port, on ur hand and then the port. I know there are alot of variables but any help would be nice. Thanks....

[George]

For USPSA type scoring, take the average time it takes to run the stage (guesstimate it, or use a shooter with similar abilities as yourself's run time), then take the total points available from the stage (example = 10 targets at 10 points each = 100 points total for the stage), then divide the points by the run time and you now have the points per second this stage will deliver to someone running it at that speed.

At 33 seconds run time a 100 point stage is worth 3 points a second. If the miss penalty is 15 points (typical USPSA value derived by adding the value of the A you did not get to the penalty assessed for the mike), then 5 seconds is the maximum amount of time you want to spend throwing shots at a LD rifle target on that stage IF you hit it. Any more time spent getting a hit than that and you are in the hole. Spending 5 seconds and walking away without a hit is also a losing strategy here too.

Basically, once you know the points per second range of a stage, the time worth spending on a target to get a hit is up to half that penalty. If you cannot get a hit within that time frame, it is far, far better to move on so you don't add more time to the deficit you will get anyway. The trick is in assessing if that target is hittable, or not within' the safe time frame ;-)

At a match like RM3G where IMG scoring has you losing 15-25 seconds of time with a mike/FTE, the rule of thumb I would use is after 10 seconds on a specific target, you are at the point of diminishing returns and you may want to just suck it up and move on cause you are more than halfway to the basic mike penalty anyway. After 20+ seconds on the same rifle target, you might as well pull the handle and just flush that stage cause 20+ seconds is a whole lotta' places at an IMG scored match :-(

The "Cone-Of-Fire method may be the ticket on difficult LD rifle targets at IMG scored matches. Take lotsa' 20 round mags with you (6+) and when a target becomes intractable after a couple well aimed shots miss on it, just center up and unleash a fusilade of shots (10+) in a trigger slapping frenzy while holding the sights as close to "on the target" as possible. You will most likely get a hit in a short while and certainly after a longer while (15-20 rounds). I watched the entire LD stage at the 2004 RM3G get shot this way by one shooter who posted a very competitive time using this method. I can't say how many mags he used, but it was at least one per shooting position and his bbl was smokin' when he was done, but he did get his hits in a very fast time compared to most of the aimers! ;-)

Edited August 13, 2006 by George

[kellyn]

While I'm not really a proponent of the cone of fire theory, it is a necessary skill you need to have, especially when shooting irons. Terrain and lighting conditions can seriously screw with the iron sighted shooter - making targets disappear, etc.. You need to KNOW where the targets are before you shoot (take binoculars!!) and if they disappear during the course of fire, you can resort to the cone of fire technique. 3-5 shot bursts are best. I had to resort to this technique at this year's SMM3G. This is NOT a substitute for knowing how to make accurate shots.

Another method is to learn where to hold based on looking at the target stand. Sometimes you can see the stand but not the plate.

George has the calculations right when it comes to the amount of time to spend shooting but I can attest that sometimes it gets personal. I've been known to shoot at steel beyond the point of diminshing returns because at that point it is me vs. that target, the rest of the match be damned. I can only think of one time that I bypassed a steel without hitting it and I'm still not happy about it (2005 RM3G).

[George]

This is NOT a substitute for knowing how to make accurate shots.

I am with Kelly 110% on this one. The Cone-Of-Fire is just a handy tool to have available IF needed. I too amd a big proponent of carefully aimed fire, round by round as the way to go in the first place ;-)

Kelly, I hearya' loud and clear on the "It's Personal Now" thing when a piece of steel get's troublesome. I ran through a complete 30 on a single flasher at 325+ yards up on the hill at Reno during a local 3 gun a few years back. I couldn't give up just cuz' I wasn't gonna' let that suckah' have my lunch money. In the end I got it but pretty much zeroed the stage from time spent and it got my lunch money anyway ;-/

At the recent MG Nationals, I managed to come away from the LD rifle stage in the MOR match with some points actually left by walking on the last target at 460 yards after putting a couple rounds at it without a hit (8" plate way up a hill). We had calculated 300 seconds as the point of no return on this stage and I figured I was already a bit over 200 seconds when I got to that suckah' (left it for last like a fool) so I knew as I settled on it that I had maybe 25-30 seconds to alot to it and then it was game over if I wanted to keep any points at all on this stage. As it was, even with leaving that plate unscathed, I wound up with a decent enough run on a very difficult stage against some tough customers (Carlock, Voigt, Burkett, Carbon, Adair, etc...) to actually walk away feeling good about leaving that one un-hit ;-)

[jbullgpd]

Thanks for the advice guys, yeah I have a real tendency to to the me vs. the target anger. I hate not hitting it, which is why I posted cause I don't want to zero a stage so I figured try to get some insight. I don't like not hitting any target but wanted some ideas to think over before RM3G. Hopefully I'll just hit them all first shot and no worries

[Bronco]

I've shot all of the "modern" RM3G matches and can't remember a LD target that didn't have some kind of a decent steady rest or at least a place to monopod. Unlike the CMG team match that had 250 yd. off hand shots on 8" steel. Practice getting into a good hold from an unusual position ie; legs higher than head, kneeling behind rest that is 16 to 18 inches off ground, rest is uneven (rocks). Also run around for 15 to 20 seconds before shooting. It's great you'll love it.