Steve Anderson Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 So the deal with swapping parts in production is that the donor gun must also be prod. legal? Specifically, the Beretta billenium has a different mag button than the elite II. This mag button is sold seperately and is also on the "combat" model of the 92. Neither of of these donor guns is prod. legal, but the part is made and sold seperately by Beretta and fits the elite II. Legal in Production? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 After reading another post about production, it now appears that the part in question must be offered by the factory for the model in question, and whether it is used on a non-production legal gun is irrelevant. Vince? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Steve, this all applies only to IPSC, not USPSA (where you can do muchmuch more to your piece and still be compliant). Yes, Doug Lewis from IROA was very clear on that, no swapping of parts between different *models* is permitted even if both individually comply! Also, you take a file to outside of frame or slide, you're in Open! Replace *any* internal factory part with non-factory -> Open! I am already wondering whether this extends to springs? --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Hi Steve, Sorry for the slow response but I'm in a whole different time zone !! As Detlef has correctly explained, IPSC Production rules only allow you to use parts made by the gun maker for the model in question. To simplify your thinking, ask yourself the following: 1) Is my make/model gun on the approved gun list? If "Yes", proceed to Q2. If "No", stop here. 2) Is the part I want to use offered by the original gun manufacturer for my particular model? If "Yes", proceed to Q3. If "No", you can't use the part. 3) Is the part prohibited by IPSC Production rules (i.e. +2 basepads) ? If "No", you're good to go for IPSC Production! Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 By those definitions, I'm good to go. Thanks, Vince. I can see you having your own category here. bet you'd Loooovvvveeeee that. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Steve, Are you asking about the the USPSA rules or the IPSC rules? (They are very different.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 USPSA, but I thought IPSC was more restrictive in production, not less. Am I wrong? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Ehhh...I'm just trying to hammer home the point that they aren't the same (lots of people read these threads that may not realize the difference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 Flex, "Ehhh"? Is that term in the FAQ? maybe I should read it again... Maybe it's a moderator term for "you guys are just confusing each other more than you're helping" Vince, Am I cool in USPSA with the above questions you posted? I can't wait to protest my "open" scores with, "but Vince Pinto said it was OK on the internet!" (BTW guys, I assure you all the above is in jest with the utmost of humor intended...these things don't always look so funny when you read them...) But I was right that USPSA is less restrictive, correct? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 USPSA Production rules don't seem to be more "lenient" than IPSC. No alterations or modifications - ya change the sights and add grip tape. You can replace broken parts with the same thing. However Steve - this is all moot, cause I don't think the Beretta Billenium made 2000 in one year did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 The billennium is not the gun I want to use, but they did make exactly 2000. (interesting...) 1000 went to the US, 1000 went to the rest of the world. Plus, it's single action only, which negates it for production anyway. I use it for NRA action pistol, but it would make a sweet limited minor gun (if there is such a thing) with 17 rounders. If 9mm major happens, it could be interesting... Anyway, The mag button on that gun is the one offered by Beretta for the 92, of which the Elite 2 is the 92 I want to put it on. Ehhh, now I'm really confused!?!?!? (Edited by Steve Anderson at 2:40 pm on July 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I actually followed that! Your answer is yes - if the Elite II is a trumped up 92, and the Billenium is a trumped up 92, then all the parts are interchangable on the "regular" 92. AS LONG AS you can call Beretta and order it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 While I do not profess to be qualified to comment on USPSA rules, it is my opinion that Point H of USPSA Production rules prohibit changing the magazine catch. For a definitive answer, contact John Amidon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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