Is There A Timing Adjustment For Priming On 650 Press?

[Sheldon]

I switched my 650 over from 9mm to .38 Special and seem to now have priming issues. It looks to me like the primers are not centered in the opening for the cases on the shellplate. The primer pockets on some of the cases I have seem to lack much of a bevel and the off centered primers are crushing to one side of the primer pockets quite often and I had my first ever primer detonation. The priming has definately lost the smoothness I am used to. I cannot find my 650 guide, but looking at the machine I could not readily see a timing adjustment between the shellplate and the priming system.

[Merlin Orr]

...... I cannot find my 650 guide,......

650 guide? Maybe this will help?

[Sheldon]

...... I cannot find my 650 guide,......

650 guide? Maybe this will help?

Thanks. I downloaded the manual and went thru it. I may have fixed it. I think the station 2 locator tab adjustment was off and contacting the cases and causing the primers to jam. I am low on .38 Special brass as I just loaded close to 1000 rounds of reloads, but the last 15 cases thru the machine felt better.

I am going to have to cull thru the cases before reloading them again as there are some off brand cases in there with some tight primer pockets as well as a few crimped ones. Thanks again!!!

[Gregg K]

There is an adjustment for timing the priming. Older 650's had a shorter index block and didn't contact the ring indexer as soon as the newer models. Adjustment of the index block changes when the primer punch comes up through the shell plate and how it centers itself. A tool and instructions are available from Dillon for the adjustment. It sounds like you have found the problem since it worked fine until you did the caliber conversion. The adjustment of the locater tab gets over looked a lot.

[Sheldon]

There is an adjustment for timing the priming. Older 650's had a shorter index block and didn't contact the ring indexer as soon as the newer models. Adjustment of the index block changes when the primer punch comes up through the shell plate and how it centers itself. A tool and instructions are available from Dillon for the adjustment. It sounds like you have found the problem since it worked fine until you did the caliber conversion. The adjustment of the locater tab gets over looked a lot.

I looked at the Dillon diagram of the 650 and found the index ring, but do not see anything called an index block. Is that the correct term for the item you're describing?? This is an older machine, I believe. I have two 650 presses and bothe seem to have the primers off of the center of the openings of the shellplate. The 38 Special brass dimensions seem to be all over the place. The rim thickness varies a lot as well as the shapoe of the primer pockets. I know that must be contributing to the problem as well. It looks like both the shellplate and the rotary primer discs have a ball detent that holds them in place right?? If that's the case how is it possible to change that relationship. If I could center up the primers better within the openings of the shellplate I would think the primers would start better in the cases. There are some 38 Spl cases that have almost no chamfer to the primer pockets and those are the ones where it would seem the better alignment would help in seating. I tried to loosen the primer feed body to see if it were possible to move it a little, but it did not seem to move much when loosened. Is that were the adjusting would take place??

Edited March 24, 2006 by Sheldon

[Gregg K]

The index block is what the ring indexer contacts on the down stroke to rotate the shell plate, it's a block attached to the bottom left side of the press and has an angled surface that contacts the ring indexer. I'm going by memory but I believe the old style blocks are about 1.675" from top to bottom. The instructions that come with the new blocks say that the new ones measure 1.775" but the one on my press is 1.875". Basically, you put an alignment tool over the primer punch with the handle pushed all the way forward and then adjust the block to contact the indexer ring, this will hold the shell plate in the proper position while the primer seating punch is up. The shell plate may relax into the ball detent when the handle is in the neutral position but that's OK since the primer has been seated. Measure your block to see how tall it is and if you have the old shorter one I would call Dillon to get the new type with the tool and instructions to adjust the timing. The index block is part number 18 on page 50 of the Dillon manual for the 650.

http://dillonhelp.com/manuals/english/XL650_v6_1.pdf?

[Sheldon]

The index block is what the ring indexer contacts on the down stroke to rotate the shell plate, it's a block attached to the bottom left side of the press and has an angled surface that contacts the ring indexer. I'm going by memory but I believe the old style blocks are about 1.675" from top to bottom. The instructions that come with the new blocks say that the new ones measure 1.775" but the one on my press is 1.875". Basically, you put an alignment tool over the primer punch with the handle pushed all the way forward and then adjust the block to contact the indexer ring, this will hold the shell plate in the proper position while the primer seating punch is up. The shell plate may relax into the ball detent when the handle is in the neutral position but that's OK since the primer has been seated. Measure your block to see how tall it is and if you have the old shorter one I would call Dillon to get the new type with the tool and instructions to adjust the timing. The index block is part number 18 on page 50 of the Dillon manual for the 650.

http://dillonhelp.com/manuals/english/XL650_v6_1.pdf?

Ok, I loosened up the block to see what I could do with adjusting it. It looks like the only play in the block allows me to put the shellplate only further out of time as opposed to actually helping correct it. It is the longer 1.775". I measured the block on my other 650 press and it looks like the shorter one at about 1.7" or so and that one has never given me any issues. I went shooting today and have some casings to reload again, so I will try it out and see if the earlier adjustment of the primer index tab wasn't the cause all along. It is just that I can see the primer seater pushing the primers up to one side of the opening of the shellplate......primer seat comes up a little late relative to the opening within the shellplate.

[Gregg K]

I'll try to remember to take the instructions with me to work on Monday and scan them. The instructions do say that if the primer punch is not centered in the shell plate that you probably weren't pushing the block against the indexer ring hard enough when you tightened the 2 screws. Be sure the block is not slanted left or right when you tighten it. It's easier to have someone push the handle all the way forward when making the adjustment. I just used a bungee cord to hold it. It took a little playing with mine to get it right.

[Sheldon]

I'll try to remember to take the instructions with me to work on Monday and scan them. The instructions do say that if the primer punch is not centered in the shell plate that you probably weren't pushing the block against the indexer ring hard enough when you tightened the 2 screws. Be sure the block is not slanted left or right when you tighten it. It's easier to have someone push the handle all the way forward when making the adjustment. I just used a bungee cord to hold it. It took a little playing with mine to get it right.

Thanks Gregg K, I appreciate the help. On a side note, you joined this forum on my birthday....January 23......spooky!!!!