Equipment Rules Interpretation Poll

[Mark Perez]

just checking to see how far (or not) some clubs go regarding the latest equipment rules.

(Can one of you moderator types assist ? - this didn't come out the way I wanted)

Mark

Edited June 2, 2005 by Mark Perez

[Merlin Orr]

hehe - Be a nice poll when a mod helps get it straightned out.....

[Duane Thomas]

How's that?

[Duane Thomas]

Be aware, this is NOT going to turn into a nasty "The new Rule Book sucks" debate. Moderators are watching.

[Gun Geek]

Be aware, this is NOT going to turn into a nasty "The new Rule Book sucks" debate. Moderators are watching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Gun Geek]

Dude!

There's some serious mixed metaphors in this poll.

How about 2 polls:

Newbies:

General allowance for newbies (they won't win anyway)

Allowance on the first time only

Rules are rules - break 'em in right

Experienced shooters:

What rules?

Any carry rig daylight or not

We use some judgement - a peek of light is OK, but it can't be swingn out there like Billy The Kid's six guns!

Rules are rules, no light in the tunnel for you!

[Clay1]

Bluntly, I'm fairly shocked at the total disregard for the rules. No one seems to give a $hit. Last IDPA shoot many were wearing Uncle Mike's and Fobus holsters on my squad and not one RO even mentioned it to them.

I just worry about my own nose and keeping it clean. I have a lot to work on my own technique and I am still at the stage that I shoot against my previous times anyhow. The real deal is even if they beat you to death with an illegal holster "what did they win anyhow?" We just compete for bragging rights in my area.

Rick

[revchuck]

There is neither a surfeit nor a plethora of IDPA shooters where I'm the MD, and only a few more at the other local matches I attend. My equipment is absolutely kosher by the new rulebook...but then, I only had to change my speedloader carrier to be legal in all five classifications (my bottomfeeder stuff was okay). However (comma) I don't get down on folks who might not be completely legal at local matches. They have no desire to shoot other than local matches, and I'd rather have them shoot and be kinda close to the rules than not shoot. If they show ambition to shoot at higher levels, I usually talk to them about it one-on-one over Cokes.

[Mark Perez]

How's that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Duane - You da Man!

[Duane Thomas]

Yer welcome.

[ronin45230]

Bluntly, I'm fairly shocked at the total disregard for the rules.  No one seems to give a $hit.  Last IDPA  shoot many were wearing Uncle Mike's and ..

i don't think there's much respect at all for the "see light" rule. why? there's never been a rational bases for it presented ... if there is one, i'd sure like to hear it. also, since it been said, in clairfications i understand, that a little light is ok, it's really hard to enforce it in any case.

sorry for the negitivity guys, but that's what people in the squads are saying.

peace

[itento]

I hate to have voted "What rules", but there was no selection for "Allow individuals to police themselves". Personnaly, I would be a little offended if some SO wanted to dismantle my gun, check my clothes labels, measure my equipment clearances, etc.

I did have an SO mention to me at a State level match that my holster looked like it was a little forward, and it was. It is a paddle holster (bought to replace a holster that may not strictly meet all rules) and it had slid a little to the front during the day. The remark didn't bother me a bit, although I think I would have been a little miffed if he had given me a procedural. Our local club does not chrono loads because there just isn't the time and I don't think anyone is really interested.

At our last match, it was announced that it would be the last match for a concealment garment due to hot weather. As it turned out, it was already in the high 80's and humid, so the group decided that they wouldn't wear them for that match either. I know there are those who will say that if it's too hot for concealment garments in a match, isn't it just as hot for "everyday, real life" ? Quite frankly, I know most of our IDPA shooters have a CCW permit, but I don't think anyone carries concealed except as the risk would dictate.

[jkelly]

I think a:

We make some allowances for rules we don't like.

would have fit nicely between the 3rd and 4th selections.

I don't think I've ever shot at club that didn't filter/alter IDPA's rules to some extent. I don't believe that those clubs would now embrace this years two Rule revisions if they didn't agree with them.

Respectfully,

jkelly

[Acrobat]

Interesting and expected results.

It looks like rules made without member support end up being ignored.

[GRD]

We have tried like crazy to run our matches by the book for the past season. We have played the game by the rules and gone to the book on all questions. I really feel that this is the best way to do it. It removes doubt, levels the playing field and is fair to everyone.

This year we are finding it impossible to deal with this 'daylight' provision without making a club-level interpretation. The 'clarification' from HQ that as long as there wasn't an "excessive" amount of daylight everything was OK is forcing us to figure this out for ourselves.

So we'll make some minor allowances for new shooters (like we always have) to keep them at the range and shooting when we have to, and we'll make sure holsters don't have more than a 3/4" offset or an offset belt piece that holds the holster or gun out away from the belt such that you can see through it. But if there's light in there, it's not the determining factor.

When people fall within the 'grey area' of interpretation, we'll err on the side of keeping people in the game and shooting so long as they don't end up with a competitive advantage they really shouldn't have in this game.

Where the rules are clear, we'll work to be 100% on them. Mag pouches need to cover 50%. That's not subjective, so it's not a problem. I don't like it, but it's pretty clear, so that's the way it will be.

- Gabe

[Clay1]

Gabe or anyone with info can you give me a link to where this statement was made? Is it in the hard copy printed book that we just recieved? Thanks for the help.

Rick

[GRD]

No hard copy, I believe it came from here:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20919

- Gabe

[Clay1]

Thanks for the response Gabe.

Have to shoot in the morning - USPSA - match. COF is 99-58 and even though I ran through it some today, it is going to be challenging. Take care.

Rick

[Mark Perez]

(cut)

Where the rules are clear, we'll work to be 100% on them.  Mag pouches need to cover 50%.  That's not subjective, so it's not a problem.  I don't like it, but it's pretty clear, so that's the way it will be.

- Gabe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the criteria for magazine pouches:

________________________________

Magazine carrier must:

A. Be designed for concealed carry and suitable for all day continuous wear.

B. Be worn on a standard belt of no more than 1 ¾” width that must pass through the belt loops on the shooter’s pants.

C. Hold the magazine with enough tension to allow it to be turned upside down and retain a fully loaded magazine.

D. Cover 2” of the magazine as measured from the top of the cartridge rim down the back flat of the magazine tube.

E. Cover the entire front face of the portion of the magazine inside the carrier. The front face is defined as the side of the tube away from the shooter’s body.

F. Hold the magazine within 10 degrees of vertical (80-100° to the ground) position on the belt, no substantial forward or rear cant.

G. Be worn in a belt location that will position the front edge of the carrier behind the centerline of the body.

___________________________

There isn't any mention of 50% - but by default , most magazines will have 50% of the body inside the pouch if measured as described.

Now , back to our regularly scheduled topic.

btw ,

for my match , I allow any carry holster . I would much rather have a person participate than to turn them away because of equipment non-compliance.

[GRD]

Oops. Yup, you're right - 2" is the final standard. The 50% thing got round filed after revision 2.

I should really know that....

- Gabe

[jkelly]

Tough poll on the rules:

65% Won't be following at least one of the new rules.

98% Won't follow the rules all the time.

2% Will be in full compliance.

Now there's an interesting set of stats.

Respectfully,

jkelly

[Tito]

Tough poll on the rules:

65% Won't be following at least one of the new rules.

98% Won't follow the rules all the time.

2%  Will be in full compliance.

Now there's an interesting set of stats.

Respectfully,

jkelly

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've given up on IDPA and drive further to shoot a USPSA match on the first Sunday of each month where I shoot production class.

[jkelly]

Tito,

I can understand why you might want to shoot IPSC instead of IDPA, it can be a lot of fun!

Respectfully,

jkelly

[jm951]

I shoot both for the trigger time, but find that the new rules are generally subject to copious amounts of interpretation at the club matches.

[kdmoore]

I shoot several local IDPA clubs. I'm not answering because there is varying levels of commitments to the rules.

I'm pretty sure a newbie would get a pass regardless of which club tho. Shot with a fellow using an USPSA belt yesterday (inner outer).

Interesting to see how it turns out. To make a bit more sense out of the data, you might add a second dimension, and ask how compliant clubs were before the rule change.