My New Drill

[Religious Shooter]

You need a small target (preferably steel) placed relatively far away. The target needs to be immediately in front of a berm or you need to shoot at a down angle so you can see the dirt kick up.

You also need to mark your zero settings (windage and elevation) on the turrets with some tape.

The drill in short:

Randomly turn your turrets less than one full revolution (to easily keep track of your zero).

You use two shots.

FIRST SHOT: Align the sights on the target as if your zero is still good. Fire the shot AND watch where the bullet lands.

SECOND SHOT: IMMEDIATELY adjust the sight picture by moving the target to where the bullet landed in relation to the reticle. Break the shot. If you align and break the shot cleanly you will hit the target with the modified sight picture.

Another variation of this is you fire two or three shots with the assumed correct sight picture... and then go for the adjusted sight picture.

And then repeat the drill by randomly turning the turrets.

My reasoning:

You should be able to read the wind and hit that target with the first shot. But say you don't know how to read the wind (or you don't know how to do it well). Or say you messed around with your scope 'cuz you got those ultra-cool QD rings and it threw-off the zero at long range 'cuz you took it on and off. Or your zero is off because you zeroed at 2000 feet above sea level and you are now at 7000 feet.

So there you are banging away at a far away target and you ain't hitting it. The above is a response and a simulation of this problem.

Any other way to solve the problem while shooting?

More monkey?

[Chriss Grube]

The Horus System does all that with out trying to hold out in space. You can do the same thing with mildots just not quite as easily as the HV.

Any idiot that has Ultra cool QD rings on a precision rifle and actually trusts them to return to zero probably shouldn't be shooting in the first place. If you take your scope off for any reason you rezero.

You change substantial elevation you rezero or check your logbook.

Not to bust your balls but it just sounds to me like you are wasteing ammo that could be better spent on real practice.

[Religious Shooter]

The Horus System does all that with out trying to hold out in space. You can do the same thing with mildots just not quite as easily as the HV.

Any idiot that has Ultra cool QD rings on a precision rifle and actually trusts them to return to zero probably shouldn't be shooting in the first place. If you take your scope off for any reason you rezero.

You change substantial elevation you rezero or check your logbook.

Not to bust your balls but it just sounds to me like you are wasteing ammo that could be better spent on real practice.

You use the HV system in 3gun rifle?

You've never encountered a shooting situation where you misread the wind and hold at the wrong point?

What's your practice routine for 3Gun rifle? You know... what's "real?"

[diehli]

Seems like a good drill to me for 3-Gun rifle, where you don't want all the extra crap in a reticle. But there are some pitfalls... you need to KNOW how to shoot a rifle (that is, not miss EXCEPT for if the sights are off). Therefore, you need to be able to hold the rifle on the target and pull the trigger well each time.

*Bang*... it's not hitting with the sights... that's where it is hitting... *bang*... *hit*... *next target*

VERSUS

*Bang*... I didn't hit it... *bang*... I didn't hit it... *bang*... I didn't hit it... etc....

I'd say that it's a good drill as long as you've already got the basics of shooting a rifle down.

[Religious Shooter]

That's the problem. I was using the #2 response exclusively.

And I agree that you need the basics down. You need to be able to hit that target on demand (without wind) at the particular range and position you are using.

That's kind of why I had the second variation of the drill where you take 2-3 shots before you use the response. You call those first 2-3 shots good and youre not hitting. So you immediately change to the response that you practice with the drill.

But like the way we like to isolate skills in practice, using the 1 shot miss and 1 shot hit version is just an isolation and practice for this particular skill.

[Chriss Grube]

RS,

The longest shot we get out here in a 3 gun match is about 300 yards. The wind generally isn't much of a problem. 300 yards with a scope is a chip shot. I make sure I know exactly where my rifle is hitting at each different range. Here in the east the long shots won't win you the match as the majority of the stages are 100 and in. Speed on the closer stuff is what wins the matches.

[Religious Shooter]

I don't know man... I think it would be nice to have it in the toolbox. Even if you don't have much wind in your area.

A 55 grainer at 300 yards with full value winds:

- at 10 MPH => 12-13" drift

- at 5 MPH => ~6.4" drift

- at 3 MPH => ~3.8" drift

From a Marine manual:

a)  Under 3 mph.  The wind can hardly be felt on the face, but the presence of a slight wind can be detected by drifting smoke.

  3 to 5 mph.  Wind can be felt lightly on the face.

c)  5 to 8 mph.  Wind keeps tree leaves in constant motion.

d)  8 to 12 mph.  Wind will raise dust and loose paper.

e)  12 to 15 mph.  Wind will cause small trees to sway.

f)  20 to 25 mph.  Wind will cause large trees to sway.

It doesn't look like it takes too much to push a bullet off a target at 300 yards.

[Chriss Grube]

You learn to read the wind and adjust. In the Corps we qualed at 2,3 and 500 with irons. You learn to read the conditions pretty quick. If you're waiting to see your hits you're shooting to slow to win. Fire and move to the next target.

[Religious Shooter]

I'm getting the feeling that you've never had the "pleasure" of being in a

BANG... miss... BANG... miss... BANG... miss... BANG... miss... BANG... miss...

situation.

The drill isn't practice for a primary reponse to a target nor is it a bread and butter technique.

It's for when the wheels have or are about to fall off. It's for when you are holding where you think it should hit (taking the wind into account)... you're calling the shot good... you're position is good... etc. But you are just not hittng.

You either move on and take the miss or try the above technique.

And I don't think the technique is especially slow. You're not looking for a bullet hole as feedback. Your looking for an explosion of dirt.

[Chriss Grube]

Nope can't say I've ever been in the bang miss repeat deal.

[rkgsmith]

I'm with Chris, I think everybody should be shooting and messing with their dope while shooting a stage. Take your time. I'll just chance it and hold off for wind that seems to be every changing. Of course I'll be just a little bit faster......