Can you swage without expanding the case on a 1050?

[Slotbike]

Here is my issue. I have moved over to using Redding dies on my 1050. For .45 ACP, I am using their dual carbide ring sizing die, the Micro-adjust seating die and the new micro-adjust taper crimp die. My question/dilemma is: if I want to use the swage for the occasional crimped .45ACP piece of brass.....can I swage without having the top of the brass expanded? The reason is, if the case gets expanded, then it makes the use of the dual ring sizing die, a moot point.

G

[SevoTT]

I just got a second back up rod from Dillon, chucked it in a drill and filed/sanded the expander portion down to well below case neck diameter. I would not want to stress the case rim and shell plate by not using the backup rod.

[rjacobs]

Are you not expanding the case in the powder thrower anyway?

I honestly havent noticed with pistol stuff that the backup rod does much in the way of "expansion" of the case mouth. I havent measured it, but its not visible, unlike the very slight belling you put in with the power thrower that IS just barely visible.

But like SevoTT said, just get a second(or use the one you have) and turn it down ever so slightly.

[SD1]

Or get a 40 backup

[jmorris]

Are you not expanding the case in the powder thrower anyway?

Not on a 1050 unless he is using the parts out of one of the other Dillon machines. The 1050 only "bells" the case with the powder drop (pistol) the expander is built into the backup rod for the swager.

Either of the solutions above would work fine.

[rjacobs]

Are you not expanding the case in the powder thrower anyway?

Not on a 1050 unless he is using the parts out of one of the other Dillon machines. The 1050 only "bells" the case with the powder drop (pistol) the expander is built into the backup rod for the swager.

Either of the solutions above would work fine.

Thats what I meant, belling the case. My 1050 as setup from Dillon bell's the case at the powder thrower. As far as I understand how the case backup/expander works is similar to how the powder thrower works so you are in essence doing it twice on the 1050. Maybe my understanding of each parts purpose is not quite right. Does the expander portion of the backup swage rod actually do more than simply bell the case a little? I havent noticed mine does much else, if anything at all in the swage station.

[Slotbike]

I spoke to Dillon today and I actually just removed the whole swage rod and backup for loading .45 ACP. Dillon said to turn down the existing one or use a .40 S&W backup but honestly, on .45 ACP, I encounter so little swaged brass, that it isn't necessary to use it. I was a little confused on some of the above posts. The 1050 bells on the powder measure just like the other Dillon machines do. The belling only flares a very, very small portion of the top of the case just to keep the projectile sitting upright so it can be seated.

G

[jmorris]

I would not use the swager without a backup rod and if Dillon told you to I would wonder why they don't like the aftermarket swager for the 650? Sounds like a great way to bend a shell plate to me.

The powder funnel for the 1050 (pistol) is different than the ones used on the SD, 550 and 650 all of them have the expander built into the funnel. Like the one on the right in this photo. Note the long straight tip that expands the case with the short "v" section that bells the mouth.

If you pull the one out of your 1050 you will notice that it is shaped like a "v" without the straight portion so it cannot expand the case, just bell it.

"Belling" and expanding are two different things. One makes it so you can seat a bullet without shaving it, the other makes the ID of the case consistant where the bullet will be held in place. Using jacketed bullets in rifle cases you won't bell the case at all but you always expand.

Rifle dies generally have the expander built into the decapping pin (left photo above) but is generally an additional step with pistol brass incorporated into the powder drop. Except the 1050, that does it on station #3, with the backup rod.

If the backup rod on your 1050 is belling the case something is wrong.

Edited June 10, 2014 by jmorris

[jmorris]

The powder funnel is specific to each different case diameter in the SD, 550 and 650 like the one on the left.

The powder funnel on the 1050 will work on a range of cases (center) but the expander is specific (right).

Edited June 10, 2014 by jmorris

[Slotbike]

OK, let me restate what my issues/concerns are/were. Since I changed over to a Redding dual ring carbide sizing die, I do not want to expand the case mouth because the Redding die forms the mouth to the exact dimension to hold the projectile in the case. All I want to do is bell the mouth slightly, to allow the projectile to sit upright while I seat it. Hence, I removed the swage rod (lower part) and the back up rod (upper part) completely from the machine since I encounter very few crimped primer pockets in .45 ACP which is the only caliber that I am talking about at this time. The powder funnel in the 1050 gives me the "flare" on the end that I need to accomplish this.

G

[jmorris]

I wouldn't have concerns about using an expander if your looking to have the ID of the case consistant. Hard to size something on the OD and have an exact ID unless you are turning all of your cases to the thickness of the thinnest one.

In any case if I removed e BU rod I would lower the swager just to make sure the shell plate doesn't take forces that is was not intended to.

If you really don't want to change the case after your size die you should look at the GSI feeders. I don't use any bell with jacketed bullets and very little with my coated bullets.

In this photo it is setup for the cast and coated bullets.

[Slotbike]

Thanks for all the replies.....well, I ended up putting the swage rod and backup rod back on the press as I found that the backup rod does not change what the Redding die was doing (after speaking to Redding.)

G