Load data needed for Montana Gold .38/158gr

[techj]

Been reloading for a while and just picked up a GP100 (6") and a Rossi 92 Lever (24").

Loaded up some rounds using Montana Gold .38/158gr JHP in 38 special cases, S&B SPP and N-340 powder. Don't have the COAL with me but it was roll crimped into the cannelure.

Long story short, since I was doing load development I started at 4.5 grains and went to 4.9 and managed to stick bullets in the barrels of both guns.

With the Lever it was an easy removal. Unfortunately with the revolver I wasn't shooting and after the jacket stuck in the end of the barrel (the lead core didn't) the shooter kept shooting thinking he was missing. I guess he thought that since the prior 6 shots were great (I believe they were with the 4.9 gr load) there was no need to hold back...sigh. That gun is on the way back to Ruger for a new barrel and a bunch of $$$.

So, does anyone have recommended load data that would work for me?

Also, needless to say, I have a chronograph on order...never had to 'need' it before although yes I know I should have and it would have prevented this much pain.

Thanks in advance.

[GlockCanMan]

Sorry to hear about the problems. Looking at the VV manual, the minimium load is 4.9gr to start.

[techj]

Thanks...I had done my load development with the Hornady (8th ed) manual which started at 4.3...should have known better than to not cross-check with VV.

[techj]

A couple of follow-up questions:

1) the VV pdf shows a range (38 spc) of 4.9 @ 791 fps to a max of 5.6 @ 983 fps. Opiniions/suggestions/cautions?

2) my plan was to chrono some factory 158 gr hollow-points (Remington) through each gun and then chrono loads ranging from 4.4 to 5.6 in each gun until I was close to the factory velocities...does this make sense or am I taking too much for granted given the unknown powder, bullet height,amount of crimp, et al for the factory ammo?

Thanks everyone!

[GlockCanMan]

I would start on the low side and work your way up slowly. Any special reason you need to have factory velocities? I myself keep my loads low as I am just punching paper or knocking down steel plates. A lot of things affect velocity...amount of powder, OAL, amount of crimp(the hotter the cartridge more crimp will be needed)

[techj]

Normally I start and stay as low as possible which has worked well for me with every other caliber that I've reloaded.

In this case my concern was that the same ammo is to feed a 6" revolver and a 24" lever gun and without sufficient velocity was concerned about stuck rounds (as I ran into already).

If it weren't for the difficulty in procuring components I would probably try other combinations of powder & bullets that would get me to higher velocities at lower loads.

When the chrono arrives I was going to measure factory loads with similar bullets (definitely same weights) and load types (standard, +P) and then star checking my loads beginning at just over the load that caused me the problem initially. My plan was to increase loads until I just reached factory velocities and at that point would run extended tests.

[GlockCanMan]

Are you going to be hunting with it, or just target practice?

[techj]

Just target...but will be shooting the lever out to 150 yrds on Silhouettes.

[TonyT]

_{I agree with the previous responders. My revolver loads get the bullet out of the barrel reliably and knock down steel. I tend to use Trail Boss with lead and plated bullets and either N-310, WST or Bullseye with jacketed bullets. My velocities run ca 570 fps with 230 gr in 45ACP and 750 to 800 fps with 158 gr. in either 38 Super or 38 Special, You may want to consider a lighter load for the revolver and a stouter load for the rifle. When I use two different loadings I tend to put the stouter load in a nickel plated case with the lower velocity load in brass cases. I also only use federal primers in revolvers and Winchester in higher velocity pistol or rifle - that provides me with enough differentiation to prevent confusion.}

[techj]

Chrono (10 shot strings) results for my Lever (24") with the chrono set @ 10' from the muzzle:

First, I chrono'd the closest factory ammo that I could find which was Remington 158gr +P JHP; it was not crimped and was in nickel plated cases. Average velocity was 1,346 FPS.

Next, I chrono'd some of my loads all of which were with a roll crimp and the VV N340 powder as follows:

Powder Charge FPS
------------------- ----------
5.1 887
5.3 973
5.4 1,013
5.5 1,035
5.6 1,071

Accuracy was good with all of the loads (checked @ 25 & 50 yrds). What surprised me was that
the velocity was significantly less than I would have expected based upon the data from VV (which was for a 6 1/2" barrel) or any of the other sources I consulted.

When I get my revolver back (another couple of weeks) I'll chrono the same loads and post.

Also, I'm getting in some AA No.5 and will be performing load testing with that as well.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated

[techj]

So, I chron'd one of my VV N340 loads (5.4) in the revolver and it came in @ 704 fps.

I then chron'd a series of AA NO. 5 loads in both the 24" lever and the 6" revolver with the following results (lowest and highest loads tested are the only ones I'm showing):

Grains Revolver Lever
-------- ---------- -------
5.6 530 860
6.2 708 987

The loads with 6.2 of A#5 were also the most accurate in both guns.

The Accurate data shows a max load of 6.4 and I will run some add'l tests @ 6.3 & 6.4 in about a week.

Feedback, ideas, suggestions would be appreciated.