Is finding out too late

[Sgt Rock]

I know according to the "rules" that the shooter and the RO are supposed to sign off on your score sheet after each stage.  Since, I just started back shooting again after 16 years, I have'nt seen anyone doing this.  But, after today I will.  I got charged 6 misses because the score keeper did not write down the proper score for the stage.  Unknown to me till after the match was posted.  And there I was happy as hell I had only "one" miss today.  Crap!

[bgary]

Was this a USPSA match?  If so, the rules cover this - and you shouldn't have gotten 6 misses.  At worst you should have gotten 6 "nothings" (no points, but no penalties, either)

Take a look at 9.7.5 and 9.76 - they say that if the scorecard is incomplete, they have to give you a reshoot.  If they can't give you a reshoot (for example, if the match is over), 9.7.6.2 says that the hits on the scorecard are deemed "complete" - in other words, they can't "add misses" to make things add up right.  They give you credit for the As, Bs, Cs and Ds that are written down, and call it good.

bruce

[Sgt Rock]

Thanks bgary,

I checked the rules you listed, as usual you are right on the money.  I do have to take some responsiblity though.  Next time, I will know to check the score sheet over after each stage.  I'll let the match director know of these rules so next time he won't arbitrally add on misses.

David

(Edited by Sgt Rock at 7:47 pm on Mar. 10, 2002)

[PaulW]

Hey David!!  I know that this kind of situation sucks.  However correct you and bgary are about the rules I *do not* believe the scoring program will allow you to fill out an incomplete stage.  You have to have the correct number of entries before it will allow you to go on.  You can't just put nothing in.  I usually make it a habbit to watch over the shoulder of the score keeper as he is adding things up.  Luckly these kinds of errors are rare for the squad I shoot on.

[ErikW]

What Paul said.

Shouldn't they DNF (Did Not Fire) you on the stage if it's an invalid scoresheet and you aren't around for a reshoot?

[PaulW]

Erik:  Not such thing as a DNF anymore.  Unless, and I believe this may have been what you meant, is if you just did not shoot it.  But then that would be worse because he would not have gotten any points at all for that stage.  (I believe the MD is going to give him a free shoot next month, sorry it happened, but the MD is stuck between a rock and a hard place.)

[bgary]

Paul is correct - there is no such thing as a DNF anymore (in the rule book).  Whatever you do on the stage, that is what is supposed to get scored, whether you finish or not.

As far as the scoring program not allowing you to enter a partial score, that is correct.  It will bark at you if there are supposed to be 24 hits, and you only enter 18.  However, the way around that (if, as in the original thread, the scorekeeper forgot to write down some hits, and there was no way to grant a re-shoot), the correct thing to do is to put the other 6 hits into the "no-penalty Mike" field in the scoring program.  That way, the hits add up right, the shooter did not get credit for any hits that were not recorded, and the shooter also did not get penalized for Mikes that were not recorded.  Bottom line is, the computer should match the scorecard.  If the scorecard only has 18 (or whatever) scoring hits, the stats people should *not* be making things up to make it add up to 24.

bruce

[PaulW]

Bruce.....ahhhh, good think.  I had not thought of doing it that way.  

[ErikW]

But there isn't a non-penalty miss field unless you set up the stage with disappearing targets...? Should we set up all stages this way to deal with scoresheets with insufficient hits?

Paul, I spelled it out, Did Not Fire, not didn't finish. It's a specific feature of EZWinScore. It should basically flag a stage such that it doesn't apear in the Missing Scoresheets report. It's for people who give up and go home early, but I think it should be used for invalid scoresheets (no time, too many hits, etc.) that can't/don't get reshoots.

[PaulW]

Huh, I didn't know that, sorry man.  I had never heard of "did not fire".  I assumed we were talking about the same thing, just worded different.  I learned something new, cool!

[bgary]

Yes, there is a "DNF" flag in EZWinScore (Did not Fire); it is used when the shooter just flat didn't show up for that stage, so he/she does not show up on the missing-scorecards list at the end of the match.

For everything else, the DNF should not be used.  Whatever the shooter shot, that's what should go into the computer, even if we *know* it is going to end up as a zero anyway.  Example, last year at the 3-gun match, a shooter had a malf on the 2nd shot of an 18-round field course; it goes into the computer as 2 hits, 16 mikes, and whatever time the shooter shows, plus 8 failure-to-engages.  It should *not* go in as a DNF, since the rules don't have a "did not finish" provision anymore.

Most of the other cases that Erik mentioned (too many hits, not enough hits, etc) are NOT DNFs under the rules - you put into the computer whatever is on the scorecard, if you can't give the shooter a reshoot, under 9.7.6.2, 9.7.6.3 and 9.7.6.4   The one exception to that is if no time is recorded - 9.7.6.1 says the shooter gets a "zero" for the stage, and the only way EZWS will let you do that is with the "DNF" flag.

And yes, I generally set up all my stages so that they include the no-penalty Mike just in case.  If you don't do this, it is easy enough to modify the stage to have it later, even in the middle of a match.  

bruce