Concentricity gauge

[Gerimee]

Good afternoon everyone. My name is Gerimee, I'm just getting into long-range shooting. I'm currently having Dave at Spider Firearms build me a Ferret50 with a 33in. Lothar Walther Supermatch barrel and good friend of mine will be shooting .308(don't remember which model .308)..I will be reloading for both calibers. I have a Dillon 550B to start loading for the .308(I use the 550b for pistol rounds currently) and I purchased the Lee 50BMG press kit just to get me started. I have no experience with reloading rifle ammo, just ALOT of reading and compairing information from others.

I was told/read that bullet concentricity plays a big part in consistant rifle ammo(among other factors) and I'm torn between which gauge to get. I have it narrowed down between the H&H gauge and the Bersin gauge. Was thinking about getting the Bersin for the 50bmg and H&H for .308.

I spoke with Bill, who builds the H&H and he said he could make me a gauge for the 50 but currently does not have any made. The prices are with-in $20 of each caliber gauge (50BMG being more expensive than the smaller caliber gauge with both companies) so i'm not compairing price, just which gauge will work the best for the 50 and .308. They both allow me to measure and FIX the concentricity and thats what I'm looking for. I noticed Hornady makes one as well for the smaller calibers(not the 50) but the reviews weren't as good and I have read more bench-rest shooters use the H&H gauge at matches.

The Bersin Gauge is caliber specific so if I wanted to do other calibers, I would have to purchase different caliber inserts.(.223, 30-06)

*The 50BMG has its own dedicated gauge from both companies so the purchase of 2 gauges is necessary*

The H&H will do most calibers on one gauge from .22 PPC through .375 length cases. (.223 and larger)

Am I on the right track or No? We will be practicing at 600yds as that what we have locally, but once we get the hang of things, plan on reaching out to 1,000+. We shoot more to compete againsts each other and other friends but don't mind takin the time and needed steps/measurements to make quality and consistant ammo.

I appoligize if I sound like an idot, just trying to do things right before bad habbits form.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Gerimee

[427Cobra]

IMHO a Sinclair concentricity gauge is all that is needed, both the Bersin and H&H only correct loaded ammo, a Sinclair type can be used to identify where the run out is being introduced.

Edited July 31, 2012 by 427Cobra

[Gerimee]

If i get the Sinclair concentricity gauge and I load some ammo that has excessive run-out, should I pull the bullet check my die and reseat it if thats where the runout is or how would I correct the problem to help eliminate the runout problem providing the brass isn't the problem? Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Gerimee

[427Cobra]

Im not saying buy this tool

http://www.neconos.com/category/Cartridge-Alignment-Tool-CAT-28

Its just a alum block with holes in it, figure out where the high side is, insert the bullet in the required hole and puh down, recheck runout, simple enough to make.

Run out from the chamber can not be fixed, cases ejected but not sized should have zero run out, so if your cases are concentric after firing any run out is mostly from your technique or uneven neck thickness, the tools used to make ammo are all pretty good, so don't go out and spend a butt load of money on new equipment first, try new ways to acomplish the samething. You may drive yourelf crazy trying to load zero run out ammo, so set realistic goals, .002ish maybe the best you can do with out neck turning, only brush out your necks, lube only the body and neck, none on the shoulder, bullets that start straight in the seating process end up straighter, resize as little as possible, non bushing dies size the neck down way toooo much, then a expander ball must be jerked thru to enlarge the neck, this almost always induces runout.

[Gerimee]

That makes alot of sence and really clears things up. Thank you very much. As far as dies/equiptment, do you think the dillon .308 dies will produce good-concentric ammo with minimal runout providing my technique and press/die set-up is proper? or should a go with redding bushing die or other brand dies? Dillon dies with the toolhead that allows the dies to float from UniqueTek? I noticed there are FL dies and just neck resizing dies. Should I use the neck die mainly and have a FL die for only when i need to FL size and trim? Would that help minimize runout? The 50bmg, I'm stuck with the Lee dies for now untill a step up to the RCBS press or maybe dillon, but thats down the road. I was told that the Lee dies won't work in the other BMG presses. Different thread pitch. Right or wrong, I'm not sure. But, I'm sure there are better quality dies out there for the big 50 than the Lee.

Only FL resize when the brass chambers in the rifle very tight/difficult? and just bump the shoulder back just enought to keep proper headspace untill FL is needed?

BTW, both guns are Bolt action and thank you for that website. I'm gonna have to try and make one.

[427Cobra]

I only use Redding Type S dies on a single press(Co-Ax), I FL every single time, get a headspace gauge to set the FL up with, .001-.0015 shoulder bump, those who NS beleave it makes superior ammo, and NS is better if you compare ammo FL sized from a die set up by the manufactures directions, with .001 shoulder bump the same accuracy as NS and never worry about hard to chamber rounds.

[Gerimee]

I will go with the Redding Type S dies then. Thank you very much. Any paticular HS gauge you recommend that has the tightest tollerances? Will I get deceint life out of my brass with FL every time providing i'm not loading them near max charge and the primer pockets hold up? 4-6 reloads maybe?

[Gerimee]

If I go with the Type-S Match Full Length 2 Die Set, should I bother getting a crimp die eventhough its a bolt gun, to ensure proper neck tightness? or are the 2 dies sufficient?