Large Pistol Primer Differences

[wsimpso1]

Has anyone else found that the primers can make that much difference on simple low pressure ammo? Here is the story...

I started loading 45 ACP for this sport, with Federal Large Pistol Primers, VV N320 and 230 grain bullets, and when I shot the stuff over a chrograph, the velocities were way low, and the load was dirty!

Thinking that the chronograph had given somewhat lower velocities than I expected with NRA High Power loads, I set up another chrono and fired ammo over both simultaneously. Nope, nothing wrong with the chronos, but the powder charge that I worked up to (5.2 grains) should have given way over 750 ft/s I was looking for. OK, Make a note - do not let anybody shoot this ammo except in this gun. And it was still dirty...

Changed to Rem primers, dropped the charge to start, and it was fast and gave high pressure indications. So, back to book powder levels for 750 ft/s with N320, N310, and Bullseye. Nice shooting Major ammo with all three powders, nice clean burn, no flakes on my arms and glasses. Hmm.

Apparently the Federal primers were just not igniting the charge. Now this is the same batch of primers where I had a few squibs (no powder, powder meter issue, written about elsewhere) and some of the bullets barely stuck in the throat while one other had full length rifling marks... so some of the primers were not without a poke. Yet it seems that they were just not lighting the powder...

So, have any of you seen this behaviour, or should I go buy a lottery ticket? When you saw it , was it Federal primers? Thanks.

Billski

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Yes, I have seen wide variations in results with different brands of primers. Choose one and stick with it.

[.40AET]

Changing primers is as bad as changing powders. For .40 major loads CCI primers were great, I changed to Winchester and went minor. Had to bump up the load to get back to where I was.

[Harmon]

could it be that the federal primers were simply "blowing through" the powder, causing the bullet to move then the powder ignited? my experiments have always seemed like federal were the hotter primer.

cci and winchester seemed about the same.

remington have always seemd like the lame duck of primers to me. in shotguns they are the "coldest" primer you can get.

all my loads shoot good with federal primers....and with the 45, there are so many different guns, brass, bullet primer combinations out there that 45 auto data is really just a good starting point...i used the book load of 4 grains of red dot, 230 lead, win primer, it was supposed to give 800 fps. it gave more like 900. different strokes, diff folks.

[SherlockWV]

Being an old rifle guy, I learned that preformance was dictated by primer/powder combinations. Accuracy notwithstanding. Although some primers have certain reputations i.e cold, medium, hot, I found that that those reputations do not hold true for all guns. Chamber tolerances add a certain dynamic to the equation. The bottom line in my load development was to experiment with different brands of primers with the same powder to get the desired result. With rifle, the goal was accuray along with the ballistics sought.

I recall a thread on this site where SRPs & Mag Primers were compared with Standard. The consensus was that there was not any significant performance difference. However in a recent match, I posed the primer question to some top shooters and many used SRPs.

I do know that (in theory) a magum primer is supposed to maximize combustion & powder consumption at ignition with the load backed off 5%. Again the concensus for the pistol shooters who contributed to that thread was that the difference was insignificant. (Chrono results were insignificant and accuracy the same) I believe that a particular powder may be the most important consideration. Some powders perform as well if not better with Standard Primers and others with SRPs & Magmum. Another consideration aside from chamber tolerances is how fast the slide disengages from battery. Although subtle, the faster the disengagement, the greater posibility of gas escapage. Magum primer or RPs may be in orderfor max combustion rate.

Most of the shooters I know use Federal Primers. Where I am at in my shooting, I can use Win., CCI or Federal with the Federals bringing my PF up about 3 points and Remingtons being too inconsistent as to hardness. For me the answer to the primer question is to experiment with different primers during load development with different powders. Once one develops a Primer/Powder combination that works consistently, keep it. I also think that it is a mistake to assume that the same Primer will yield the same results with different powders & charges.

Good & Safe Shooting - JC