starting load for .40 w 155gr & WST @1.2"

[jmbaccolyte]

Anyone have suggestions for a starting load for a .40S&W with hard cast lead 155gr Semi-wadcutters using WST powder and loaded at an OAL of 1.2"? I'm thinking 5.3 grains of WST because that's listed on the Hodgdon reloading data site as maximum at an Over All Length of 1.125" and the consensus seems to be that changing the OAL causes the chamber pressure to vary a lot, so it should decrease quite a bit when loaded long. Not many people are using 155 gr bullets loaded long, but I bought these bullets years ago (is the Pomona, CA gun show still around?) because that's what the fixed sights on our duty guns were regulated to shoot. I think "El Pres" posted that he gets major power factor with 6.0 grains of WST and the 155 grain bullet. I don't need to make major yet.

Am I on the right track?

[jmbaccolyte]

I shot it today with the 155 lead alloy bullet and an OAL of 1.2" and 5.4 gr of WST at 30 degrees temperature and recoil seemed milder than the same bullet and 5.0 grains of WST at 1.135 OAL at the same temperature.

[jmbaccolyte]

I had some feeding problems at 1.2" OAL length. CHA-LEE suggested I try 1.26" OAL instead. I went to a 180 grain bullet jacketed bullet because the grease groove on the 155 grain lead alloy bullet would have been exposed at 1.26" and dropped the powder charge of WST to 4.4 grains and it worked well. Based on what the more knowledgeable people here on the forum said about WST's reverse temperature sensitivity, I expect that I will have boost the powder charge for summer here (I shot this load at 20 degrees F).

Edited February 12, 2012 by jmbaccolyte

[perrysho]

I have been using some Rainier Plated 155 RNFP with 4.7 WST.

Start around 4.6 or 4.7 Gr

Be SAFE,

Perry

[jmbaccolyte]

Thanks Perrysho, I forgot to stress that I'm using an OAL of 1.26". And you're right, normally it would be too stiff a load. Hodgdon lists a maximum charge of WST with the 155 grain bullet as 5.3 grains at an OAL of 1.125". Variations in the OAL dramatically and seriously effects chamber pressures.

I fired a magazine today of 155 grain lead bullets and 5.7 grains of WST at an OAL of 1.26" at about 60 degrees F and the load seemed milder than factory loads but was still kicking the brass further than I like (Wolfe gun spring company suggests 3'-6' for when the ejected case first hits the ground if I remember correctly) so I'll try this load tomorrow with 50-100 rounds and a 18 pound recoil spring in my .40 S&W EAA/Tanfoglio Match. Leading was light, but I didn't fire many rounds at all. This bullet alloy is very hard (I would guess 20-24 on the brinnel scale) and it needs a fairly stiff load to obturate and seal the bore.

Edited March 11, 2012 by jmbaccolyte

[freakshow10mm]

Most of my shooting is done with a Brinell Hardness of 12-14. This includes 10mm Auto 175gr at 1300fps with no leading. The bullets you have are too hard for your pressure. You're going to get some leading and you're correct about them not obturating. If you can tolerate it enough to use up the bullets, great. Use them to fine tune your load, then purchase good bullets that are matched to your application for hardness. 15 BHN is the hardest I'd go in the .40 S&W.

[jmbaccolyte]

Thanks freakshow10mm, I'll keep working up the load and watching the leading.

[freakshow10mm]

Many bullet casters get too hung up on bullet hardness as a cure all for leading, but bullet fit is the most important variable. Most commercial cast bullets are too hard for the application. Elmer Keith ran unchecked LSWCs in the .44 Magnum to 1400fps at 9 BHN with no leading. .22LR ammunition doesn't lead and it's nearly pure lead and some cheap wax lube!

[jmbaccolyte]

Yes and I've seen some complaints on various forums about lead alloy bullets being buggered (or is that boogered?) up during shipping from the manufacturer's place to the shooter's house. So I wouldn't be surprised if the companies get tired of the complaints and just make the bullets harder than they know they should be to cut down on the complaints. Then we have to run maximum pressures to avoid leading. I have a lot going on right now, but I'll bump the charge a little and let you know soon how it works.

[freakshow10mm]

That's basically why. Harder bullets arrive at the customer in the same condition they see on the website. Rather than spend money on packing material, they just harden the bullet. Last time I checked, paper was cheaper than metal.

[rinconjoe]

I am trying to figure out wear everyone getting there powder data max i see on there web site as follows :

180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester WST .400" 1.125" 3.9 830 28,300 PSI 4.3 888 32,400 PSI

[jmbaccolyte]

Rinconjoe,

1) Most of this thread is about 155 grain bullets, not 180 grain bullets. Naturally the proper powder charge varies with variations in bullet weight.

2) But the most confusing part (for me) is that variations in the overall cartridge length (O.A.L.) causes major pressure variations. Todd Green's website (http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm) shows how changes in the O.A.L. changes chamber pressures. I don't know how much I can copy without permission, but if a 1.125" OAL is normal for a .40 S&W cartridge; then say you're using an a 1.130" OAL and the pressure is 27,000 psi, it becomes almost 67,000 psi when the cartridge is shortened by a tenth of an inch to 1.030". Conversely, if the O.A.L is lengthened to say 1.250" O.A.L (what I'm using) the chamber pressure is greatly reduced for a given load.

CAUTION: not all pistols will handle this large a change in the cartridge O.A.L. Sometimes increasing the O.A.L this much can cause the bullet to jam into the rifling and cause drastic and possibly dangerous pressure spikes.

Probably the more experienced reloaders on this forum can explain this better. The bottom line is if in doubt, stick with the manual.

PS: If I've over-explained, I apologize.

Edited March 31, 2012 by jmbaccolyte