Shadowrider Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) I working over a 686-0. This gun was bought new by me in the '80's. To say it was rough inside is an understatement, it looks like a drunk monkey chiseled it out on the inside, literally. I've got most of it smoothed out as best as can be done without replacing the frame, which ain't gonna happen. The side cover had never been off until the other day. I never fired this gun double action because it was so horrid and it was only used for hunting anyway. My question is, does it have to go back to the factory for a new ratchet? Carryup is good, timing is good, it's all good. Except for the enormous hitch right before hammer fall on about 4 chambers. 2 of them are okay. Amazingly this gun has a fantastic SA trigger. The hand looks good and it's not too tight or loose and walking in the window. It's definitely the ratchet because without the cylinder in it, I have it feeling pretty nice, and it's always the same chambers that have the hitch. Can a new style be installed/fitted? Reason for asking is because there's a distinct possibility I'll screw it up smoothing this hitch out. I don't even think they knew what deburring was back when this one was made. Edited December 5, 2011 by Shadowrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Shadowrider, we have the Steel Challenge comhing up the 17th. Bring it down John G and Chris G had some luck with some revos. Mine was doing the same thing after a few years and mine was the end shake problem, A shim and all cured. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I working over a 686-0. This gun was bought new by me in the '80's. To say it was rough inside is an understatement, it looks like a drunk monkey chiseled it out on the inside, literally. I just worked on a friend's 686-0 and had the same impression. Every surface was rough, and every edge had a burr. AFAIK, the mid-80s were the waning days of the Bangor Punta era, often associated with spotty QC. Still, I was blown away. Can a new style be installed/fitted? I don't think so. The newer ones use a flat surface along the length to keep the ratchet from turning, whereas the older one use a channel cut along the length. Also, IIRC, the older cylinder/ratchets have 2 little pins that the new ones don't. You might be able to fit in an entire cylinder assembly, though. The 686-0 and 686-1s were recalled for a firing pin bushing issue. If yours is one of those guns, you could send it to S&W on their dime, have the recall work done, and have them fix or install a better ratchet. If the QC of the ratchet is so bad, they might even fix it free. BTW, if it hasn't been recalled, you might consider it if you're using this for hunting. Seems the problem was related to primers blowing back into the firing pin window, trying up the gun. Hasn't been a problem with lighter loads, but can pop up with heavier (e.g. hunting) .357mag loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 New-style ratchet will not fit. Probably can recut the lugs on those 4 chambers. Or fit a replacement old-style ratchet if you can find one. Dealing with those late-'80s revolvers can be awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Okay, I dykem'd the ratchet. Not seeing anything on the bad chambers that's not also on the good chambers. But I did notice the the right side of the hand is rubbing in the slot below the widow. I'm thinking that maybe there is a thousandths or two extra metal on some of the ratchet surfaces causing the hand to bind in the frame. It's not much and I see the fix as filing the slot under the window or the ratchets or just dryfiring the crap out of it for days on end. Is this a miscut? Here a couple of shots to see what I'm dealing with. Notice the placement of the grinding marks on the rebound slide. On the other end and it wouldn't matter. But no, it's gotta be right exactly where one doesn't want them. Rough frame: Edited December 5, 2011 by Shadowrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The hand window should not have that step in it. It should be straight on both sides. Still, that will not really hurt anything. Find the 4 ratchets that are tight and carefully file the part where the hand goes past until it's not binding anymore. Go slow - it's easy to take off too much, then that chamber will have late timing. Also, be careful to get the right ones, the ratchet is offset to the corresponding cylinder. Use a belt sander to smooth the bottom of the rebound slide. Knock off the high spots in the frame the best you can with a file, don't worry about the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I agree with Warren on filing the ratchet. If you put a decent polish on the bottom of the rebound slide, the milling marks probably aren't really hurting anything. If it's sliding nicely, you probably don't need to worry about it. I usually use 400-grit waterproof sandpaper wrapped around my fingers to smooth the inside of the frame and the sideplate. It's tedious and one of my least favorite parts of doing action work. You only need to go until it's reasonably smooth, you'll never get rid of all those milling marks. Someday take a look at the inside of a S&W revolver made around 1999-2001, just after they put the new machinery in place at the factory. You can spot these by looking for guns with the MIM hammer and trigger redesign, but no internal lock system. They are the smoothest internally ever to come out of that factory. Unfortunately, S&W has let the QC slip again lately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Well upon further review, I think the ratchet teeth themselves are okay. I took some 400 grit paper to the right side of the widow and the slot below it, and the hand isn't dragging the frame anymore. If you look in the photo there is a burr and I just made sure it doesn't protrude into the slot/window. All is good with the hand/frame fit now. The culprit is the burr on the floor BETWEEN the ratchet teeth. The area is so small I almost need a knife to get to it without jacking up the ratchet tooth surface, because the burr goes all the way up to the tooth surface. I'm using a knife shaped riffler file that I smoothed one side of the tip, but it's really really slow going. I have one tooth almost there. Why they machined that relief cut after the ratchet teeth, I'll never know. I'm sure they could have saved themselves untold countless hours of fitting time and warranty hours by just by re-sequencing these two cuts. I greatly appreciate all the help guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Shadowrider, we have the Steel Challenge comhing up the 17th. Bring it down John G and Chris G had some luck with some revos. Mine was doing the same thing after a few years and mine was the end shake problem, A shim and all cured. later rdd Looks like I'll be shooting it! Took a crap ton of work on the ratchet with a barrette file and I also found a burr on the frame that was interfering with the rebound slide, but I actually have it feeling far far better than I thought it was going to. Carryup is good with lockup actually being nice and early even when shooting wrong handed. It might just work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Well upon further review, I think the ratchet teeth themselves are okay. I took some 400 grit paper to the right side of the widow and the slot below it, and the hand isn't dragging the frame anymore. If you look in the photo there is a burr and I just made sure it doesn't protrude into the slot/window. All is good with the hand/frame fit now. The culprit is the burr on the floor BETWEEN the ratchet teeth. The area is so small I almost need a knife to get to it without jacking up the ratchet tooth surface, because the burr goes all the way up to the tooth surface. I'm using a knife shaped riffler file that I smoothed one side of the tip, but it's really really slow going. I have one tooth almost there. Why they machined that relief cut after the ratchet teeth, I'll never know. I'm sure they could have saved themselves untold countless hours of fitting time and warranty hours by just by re-sequencing these two cuts. I greatly appreciate all the help guys... I'm working on a similar problem and trying to go through these checks. You've got me confused on the "burr on the floor BETWEEN the ratchet teeth". Can you show a picture of the rachet as to where this burr was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) I'm working on a similar problem and trying to go through these checks. You've got me confused on the "burr on the floor BETWEEN the ratchet teeth". Can you show a picture of the rachet as to where this burr was? Here ya go. I think I just found another tool to use. The camera! It really shows stuff I'm not seeing with my glasses. Looks like I didn't get it all and have more work to do. Grrrr.... Pay no-never-mind to the little girl cylinder chamfering, I was just trying to break the sharp off until it goes out. It's fixing to get cut for moons. Edit to add: I told you guys it looked like a drunk monkey chiseled it out. Yes all that nastiness came out of S&W. I sure didn't do it... Edited December 14, 2011 by Shadowrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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