ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I purchased a new Timney trigger for my AR and installed it today. Now it will not fire. The primer doesn't have a mark on it, so the firing pin isn't even getting close. I've tried 2 different bolts and both are the same. Any ideas on what it could be? Thanks, Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 have you tried removing the takedown pin (i.e. the rear one) and dry firing it with the block of wood or something to keep the hammer from hitting the bolt catch (if the hammer is in fact falling)? not sure whether you can see anything inside the timney fire control group, but this approach may at least give you some more info for when you get on the phone with the support folks at timney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maksim Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I would check to make sure you installed it correctly. Springs facing the right way, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Yes, the hammer is dropping. I've dry fired it several time checking the trigger pull. Everything looks fine, just doesn't go bang with live ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maksim Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 You have to be more specific... does it fire? cycle? Does it work at all if you feed one by one? did you check the BCG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 I would check to make sure you installed it correctly. Springs facing the right way, etc. That was the good thing about the Timney. It's a drop in unit. Just take the old trigger and hammer out and drop in new one piece unit. Nothing to get backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyC Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 My guess would be the firing pin cotter pin is in front of the firing pin lip. I hope that makes since. Check the bcg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 You have to be more specific... does it fire? cycle? Does it work at all if you feed one by one? did you check the BCG? It doesn't fire, therefore no cycle. I can rack a new round in and the hammer resets like it should, but when I pull the trigger I can hear the hammer fall but it doesn't fire. I even tried another bolt. Same with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 My guess would be the firing pin cotter pin is in front of the firing pin lip. I hope that makes since. Check the bcg. to the OP - if you can see hammer falling, but you're seeing NO impact on primer (not even the dent you normally get from chambering a live round) then would agree w/guy that there's something in the bolt carrier group preventing the firing pan from advancing forward in the bolt. You mentioned that you'd tried two bolts - did you mean two separate BCG's, or did you disassemble the original BCG and swap out the bolt? Either way, suggedt you take the BCG out and see if you can physically push the firing pin forward such that it protrudes a few hundreths past the bolt face. If you cannot, then i think this is your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 I did try pushing the firing pin and I can see it protruding past the bolt face. And yes, I do have 2 separate bcg's. Also wanted to mention that it functions fine with the old trigger with both bcg's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I did try pushing the firing pin and I can see it protruding past the bolt face. And yes, I do have 2 separate bcg's. Also wanted to mention that it functions fine with the old trigger with both bcg's. when you drop the hammer on a live round (or drop the bolt catch to feed a live round from the magazine) do you see any indentation on the primer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 There are no marks on the live primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Can you take a couple of pictures of the lower assembly from one or two angles showing the trigger in the unlocked position and post them? I've been using Timney's for several years and they are usually plug and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) There are no marks on the live primer. did want to clarify - if you drop the bolt carrier group to chamber a live round, you should (in my experience) see some indentation on the primer, as the firing pin is free floating and will, under its own momentum, fly forward to "bounce" off of the primer when your chambering a live round in this fashion. When you say there are no marks on the live primer, are you easing forward the BCG to chamber a new round so the firing pin is not driven forward by the BCG? If that's not the case (i.e. you're just hitting the bolt catch to let the action spring drive the BCG forward to chamber a round, but seeing no dent at all on the chambered round's primer), then it sounds like there is still an issue with bolt assembly that's preventing the firing pin from moving forward. If i misunderstood you, and you're seeing a dent in the primer from chambering a round by hitting the bolt catch, but you're seeing no impact when you ease the bolt forward and then drop the hammer, it t sounds like: 1) you have checked to make sure your bolt is assembled properly and you've confirmed that you can manually push the firing pin forward to protrude into the boltface 2) you have confirmed that with the action broken open, you can see the hammer fall when you pull the trigger 3) you have confirmed that you're seeing the normal "dent" in a primer face from chambering a round by hitting the bolt catch, so you know you've got full pin protrusion 3) but when dropping the hammer on a live round, the round does not fire and you are not seeing any impact on the primer from the firing pin If that's all true, then i'm out of ideas on this one, keen to see if Timney has any troubleshooting advice or if they just ask you to send it back for a replacement. Do want to confirm that you've seen proper fire and function with a standard trigger group (i.e. this is not a new build on a lower which has not been tested with standard trigger/hammer)? Only other thought is either it's a new build on a lower with some pin holes out of spec (unlikely, as the AR Gold trigger pack wouldn't install), so only other option is that your timney is out of spec and you've got something inside the trigger pack that is preventing the hammer from dropping all the way. Wouldn't think they would miss that, but stranger things have happened. EDITED: re-read thread, saw you mentioned that this rifle & BCG functioned fine with old trigger but not with new (with no changes/reassembly to bolt or bcg), so think that says it all right there. timney is a drop in unit so if your rifle functioned fine with old fire control and won't fire with timney, i would call them and get a replacement. Edited October 31, 2010 by jaredr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Well I finally figured out what was happening. And it was NOT the trigger. It was the P-Mag. For some reason the bullet doesn't go all the way in the chamber. I lock the bolt back, insert the p-mag, hit the slide release and the cartridge goes almost but not all the way in. It's so tight that the forward assist doesn't budge it. I can eject the mag, eject the cartridge and drop that same cartridge in the chamber, then hit the bolt release the it goes all the way in. I even tried a different mag and it works fine. It just doesn't like feeding the first round out of the p-mag. I'm going to research p-mag feeding issues, then maybe start another post about it. Thanks for all the help with things to look for. I'm sure glad it wasn't the trigger. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Gotta love an easy fix! BTW, I also have a 3lb timney, and have 3,000 thru it with 0 malfunctions. Seems to be a good trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 (edited) ouch. not sure how the mag would feed enough to make it look like the weapon was in battery (but still prevent the cartridge from chambering). I take it this was a different mag then you had used to check the original fire control group? Bizarre, but I guess a good reminder that we should look at everything we've changed when something starts malfunctioning. glad to hear it was the $10 magazine and not the $150(ish) trigger pack Edited November 1, 2010 by jaredr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47traxx Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Actually it was the same mag I had been using. That's why I immediately thought it was something with the trigger since that was the only thing I had changed. Same mag, same ammo. Oh, well. Lesson learned. Least I'm back in business now, getting ready for the next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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