9mm Major using lead loads

[CiDirkona]

Hi,

I'm hoping you guys and gals can give me some direction on working up a 9mm Major load. I've read the 9mm major excel sheet several times and decided on Longshot with Federal Small Rifle primers, but haven't definitely decided on a bullet yet. So far, my favorite load out of both my ssp/production gun (brown gen2) and my gen3 open Glock (both 17s) is 4.0gr of HP-38, CCI or Magtech primers, under a 125gr Dardas LRN at 1.125" OAL, which cycles both my gen2 (12lb recoil + sprinco rod) and my compensated gun (11lb ismi minus 6 coils.) This load gives me just over a 125pf (my 3.9gr loads were 124pf, so I upped by .1gr.) One of the guys I shoot with regularly shoots hardcast lead bullets out of his 38 Super, but also says he has to clean out his ports regularly. I could switch up the parts for Limited Major gun too, but I can imagine 165pf would be brutal/fun...

I normally load for economy, so if I can go with a lead bullet, I'd really prefer to do so as long as it works and doens't massively deposit lead in my comp or barrel. I wouldn't mind going with a Montana Gold FMJ/CMJ/etc, but would prefer to stick with Dardas hardcast lead if possible as they're half the cost. Would 125 or 147 LRN give me cleaner results, and why? As Berry's plated have to be kept under 1200fps according to their website, could I push one of their 147s to about 1150fps to make major, or is that getting dangerously close to ripping the plating off?

So far, the loads I've built and have yet to shoot/chrono start just under Hodgdon book(website) max charge (although greater OAL) and go up from there. Could someone give me an idea what I can reasonably expect from these? Should I be trying something else? Should I not even bother with lead boolits? Are swaged molycoated Bear Creeks and even worse idea?

Book max: 125gr LCN 1.125" 5.7gr Longshot @ 1115fps (139pf)

My ladder test: 125gr LCN 1.150" 5.5, 5.7, 5.9, 6.1, 6.3, 6.5gr Longshot, 10 each.

Guns in question:

Thanks in advance,

-Colin

Edited May 18, 2010 by CiDirkona

[toddrod]

Can't comment on your loads but I did see a post by a member about him having succes with the Bayou Bullets coated lead bullets in his open gun.

[CiDirkona]

At major powerfactor? Do you know what weight?

[G-ManBart]

I could switch up the parts for Limited Major gun too, but I can imagine 165pf would be brutal/fun...

You can't shoot Limited Major with 9mm

I normally load for economy, so if I can go with a lead bullet, I'd really prefer to do so as long as it works and doens't massively deposit lead in my comp or barrel.

Even very hard cast bullets are going to massively deposit lead in your comp, and to a lesser degree, the barrel. Even FMJs with just an exposed lead base will fill up the comp pretty quickly. I've shot something like 65K of lead bullets (Super) at the old Major power factor and had to clean out the comp pretty much once a week.

[Jman]

Not going to shoot bare or moly coated major 9's with my G17 Open gun. Smokey, melted globs of...nah, not happening.

Not shooting Berry or Rainier plated at those speeds either. I know some folks are using a plated bullet

from http://xtremebullets.com/ and like them. But for that price MG and Zero are looking dang good.

You'll hear different opinions of course, this is the inter web thing. Bare lead for 9 major? Better choices out there I promise.

[CiDirkona]

Thanks for the replies -- I forgot about the .401 cal limit to Limited Major -- I'm still new to USPSA. And paying $150 to build 1k rounds over $100 isn't terribly much more expensive I realize, just hoping that there's a way to mitigate the mess or cost.

What's the best way to clean lead out of an aluminum comp? Will the vinegar mix stuff eat the aluminum all up? Do I just live with the barrel/comp de-leading or should I switch to and stick with CMJ/TMJ bullets?

Edited May 18, 2010 by CiDirkona

[G-ManBart]

Thanks for the replies -- I forgot about the .401 cal limit to Limited Major -- I'm still new to USPSA. And paying $150 to build 1k rounds over $100 isn't terribly much more expensive I realize, just hoping that there's a way to mitigate the mess or cost.

What's the best way to clean lead out of an aluminum comp? Will the vinegar mix stuff eat the aluminum all up? Do I just live with the barrel/comp de-leading or should I switch to and stick with CMJ/TMJ bullets?

Stick with CMJ/TMJ or JHPs. In bulk, you can get good, quality CMJs or JHPs like Montana Gold for $80/K delivered if you buy a case. R,

[CocoBolo]

Thanks for the replies -- I forgot about the .401 cal limit to Limited Major -- I'm still new to USPSA. And paying $150 to build 1k rounds over $100 isn't terribly much more expensive I realize, just hoping that there's a way to mitigate the mess or cost.

What's the best way to clean lead out of an aluminum comp? Will the vinegar mix stuff eat the aluminum all up? Do I just live with the barrel/comp de-leading or should I switch to and stick with CMJ/TMJ bullets?

I ruined a barrel with vinegar and puroxide mix, it pits them. I clean lead out of the comp same way a dentist cleans your teeth with a metal pick. You can get a set of these at Harbor Freight for a few dollars. For barrels I recommend a chore boy wrapped around a bore brush, then a patch with a little JB bore paste and some elbow grease.

Precision delta has a new 124gr JHP and if you order 10K the price is pretty good, they are not on the web site you need to call to order them. Shooting is like smoking your not going to quit so stop buying a pack at a time and get a carton.

I have shot http://www.bayoubullets.net 9 mm 125gr in a 38Super Open gun at 1400fps (10.5gr AA#7) with no residue of any kind in either the comp or the barrel, the bullets were accurate (I hit A's didn't shoot any groups at 100 yards) and the holes were round, they didn't tumble. I have also seen regular cast bullets with red wax on them shot out of an STI open gun and it ran for 11 of 12 stages 2009 TX State Open, I was the RO every time he UNLSC I'd look in the chamber and it looked like some one threw up pizza in there. The guy came all the way from Washington state to TX to shoot the match with cast bullets. You can drop your load .3 to .5 gr and get the same FPS as jacketed.

The reason I shot Bayoubullets is because the barrel on the gun was totally shot out and I could not make power factor with jacketed bullets, I sure as heck did it with the BayouBullet. (the 1401 was from the good gun, the shot out one was 1341 fPS).

Edited May 19, 2010 by CocoBolo

[TonyT]

All the open gun users I know use the Montana Gold jacketed bullets. I doubt you can get enough velocity with lead bullets and I believe you would get excessive leading.

[edison]

Anyway...Tuesday I loaded up some ammo and went to the chrono. Although I originally thought that the chrono was reading hot, after firing some of my 138pf Production ammo through it, I realized that it was pretty much on.

130g Black Bullet

8.2g HS6

1.15 OAL

Fed Primer

Mixed brass

Average pf ended up being 187.

Wayyyyyyy too hot, so yesterday after work I loaded up some more ammo with 7.5g of HS6 which brought the load down to a 174pf. I will stick with this recipe for the OH and IPSC matches if I decide to shoot Open. Just two more days until the big weekend It's going to be a good time...I just know it

later on his follow up post, Pharaoh says use something harder than Feds primer so you won't get pierced primers. Hopes this helped.

[Jeff686]

The fact that almost nobody uses lead for open should give you a clue.

[CiDirkona]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Just because people aren't doing it, doesn't mean it's a bad idea. That being said, I broke down and bought 1k of MG CMJs to try out with the open glock.